They Changed FIREBALL?

[Sun Knight]

Not really.

Yes, really. It would make the game very much unfun for me.

When I play DnD I want to play a game that is DnD. When I play GURPS (if I even want to) I want to play GURPS. If I want to play a game it needs to be recognizably be that game I want to play. Why would I want to play some other totally different game when I want to play DnD?

 

[green slime]

Too much butchering will make the game not Dungeons and Dragons except in name only, and that would make it undoubtably unfun. When I play Dungeons and Dragons I want the game to be recognizably Dungeons and Dragons. Not some GURPS fantasy wannabe with the DnD logo on the book.

I agree.

In fact, I find the whole quote by James Wyatt rather... disenheartening.

4e may very well be a fantastic game.

Its just not DnD any more.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I have to agree, D&D needs to stay D&D, as much as possible. If the designers go too far, it is something else, like the multitude of D&D wannabe copies that have come out in the past few years.

 

[Grog]

As I already pointed out, Fireball has gone through drastic changes every time D&D has changed editions before this. Were those new editions not D&D anymore, too?

 

[frankthedm]

Mang, destructible terrain is so videogamey.

Hardly! I'd say more than 95% of all video game terrain is indestructible, Sure a few things here and there can be smashed for power ups and etc, but no matter your firepower, the vast majorty of the stage is going to be in one piece when you leave it unless the whims of the programmer make it otherwise.

At least in D&D you can take out a warhammer or pick and make a dent in any non magical wall you find. Sure the Gordian Knot approach won't always work, but at least there going to be a reason why you HAVE to find the key to the old door in the abandoned house when you have a perfectly good crowbar...

 

[green slime]

As I already pointed out, Fireball has gone through drastic changes every time D&D has changed editions before this. Were those new editions not D&D anymore, too?

If I take a toolshed, and replace the roof, it is still a toolshed. If I bulldoze the toolshed over, and replace it with a 5 room house, (a kitchen, two bedrooms, a living room, and a bathroom), not many people in their right minds would call it a toolshed any more...

The question isn't fireball per se, but rather the question regarding the number of changes and how much they depart from the inherited legacy. We don't know, but allow me to say, that the few indications I have seen so far are not too encouraging. The change to fireball is really one of the least disconcerting.

Don't misunderstand me. 4e could very well be a fantastic game, and in all likelihood will be.

The essence of the question posed by SunKnight, seeks the soul of DnD: What makes "Dungeons and Dragons" recognisably that, and when does a game cease to be such? Obviously, we all have different benchmarks.

For some people, it seems it is simply enough if the package holds the words "Dungeon" and "Dragon". YMMV

 

[Rechan]

Le sigh. All this sounds like to me is "It's not a cheeseburger if the cheese is under the meat! They put CHEDDAR on it?! That's not a REAL cheeseburger!"

D&D Is:

Rolling a d20.
Classes.
Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha.
Dragons, beholders, illithids and orcs.
AC.
Dungeons.

Those things are intrinsic to D&D. If one of those go away, it "Isn't D&D". Whether Fireball scales with a level or not is irrelevant.

If they got rid of classes all together, or if spellcasting was just skill-points like Oblivion, then there would be a leg to stand on with regards to Not Being D&D.

 

[Horacio]

Too much butchering will make the game not Dungeons and Dragons except in name only, and that would make it undoubtably unfun.

I disagree. Maybe it would make it more unfun for you, not for everybody.

The problem with "fun" and "unfun" are subjective concepts, what is utterly unfun for you could be very fun for me.

That's a point that many 4e-haters and 4e-fans seem to forget these times...

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's 33 10x10 cubes, so some of the larger rooms absorbed a lot of the foom! effect. Perfect for clearing out the corridors of some of the more complex dungeons, too. Though it did have the side effect of causing a lot of monsters to start heading for the enterance, with us in the way.

I once designed a dungeon which was entirely 5ft wide by 8ft high corridors and small 10ftx15ft rooms rather than the (then) standard 10ft wide 10ft high corridors with big halls.

The wizard attempted a fireball which actually filled the *entire 2nd level* of the dungeon

 

[Baby Samurai]

Sometimes all that results in is a bunch of cow carcasses stinking up the place...

Well, the magic/spell system has always stunk to me since the Basic Rules/1st edition AD&D like diseased Venezuelan cow meat that needs to be incinerated before a human might consume some.

I don't let the sacred cows crap in my living room…