Thrown Weapon Seeker with nothing to throw...

[DracoSuave]

I'm aware that thrown weapon seekers get +1 to-hit. I still think they get the short end of the stick here.

A great deal of that is because of their proficiencies. If they simply got free proficiency in something other than daggers and javelins, I'd have no real beef with them. I'd still think they were sub-par in comparison, but as it stands they're pretty well feat-taxed. (Whereas a Crossbow or Longbow seeker can very easily do without.) The fact that thrown weapons have such shorter ranges is, in my book, an automatic handicap for a Controller that isn't even figured in.

-O

In the end tho, the comparison is accuracy vs range. The damage is an afterthought for the controller, who needs that extra point less than anyone save for a specific build of cleric.

To be, it's like comparing an orblocking control wizard to a staff of power war wizard and saying that the war wizard is better because of the damage and defense. I don't think the comparison is apt in this case. Seekers have no area or close burst at-wills, so the standard controller damage mechanic isn't even in their hands. If I'm control-heavy, the extra accuracy is more important than damage, which to be honest, is the lowest on the list of priorities. I want -effects- not -DPR-.

As for the range issue, ask a Beast Form Druid if range is a problem. Controllers can work at close range if they are designed for it. And in this case, the thrown seeker is.

 

[sev]

I was toying with the up-close Seeker a bit too and I was thinking Dwarf was the way to go with Wisdom boost and Dwarven Weapon Training for hand axes as well as the Second Wind as a minor since it wouldn't have defender HP/defenses.

or just make do with Dwarven Weapon Proficiency, which comes with the race choice, and use throwing hammers, and use the feat for something else. To DracoSuave's earlier point, things like Lullabye Weapon are restricted to things that go thud (flail, hammer, mace, staff).

 

[Saeviomagy]

As a dagger-wielding rogue, it's a pretty rare event for me to have to suck back long range penalties to target a foe. 4e combat rarely occurs at ranges outside of 10 squares, let alone 10 squares + a move. And the thrown weapon seeker can still wield a bow/crossbow, yes? So he could have a backup?

 

[sev]

As a dagger-wielding rogue, it's a pretty rare event for me to have to suck back long range penalties to target a foe. 4e combat rarely occurs at ranges outside of 10 squares, let alone 10 squares + a move. And the thrown weapon seeker can still wield a bow/crossbow, yes? So he could have a backup?

Wait, aren't daggers 5/10? My (oversized) party regularly gets into combat with those at the back of the party more than 5 squares away from the front. So I wouldn't be surprised to find a throwing seeker in between 5 and 10 squares away from a target, getting a range penalty.

Also, extra range = more flexibility when it comes to finding cover -- sometimes there's good reason to spread that combat out.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Wait, aren't daggers 5/10? My (oversized) party regularly gets into combat with those at the back of the party more than 5 squares away from the front. So I wouldn't be surprised to find a throwing seeker in between 5 and 10 squares away from a target, getting a range penalty.

Is your oversized party fighting in corridors all the time?

That's 5 squares of range plus 6 squares of movement: if the thrown seeker starts at 10 squares, he can close that to short range fairly easily unless the battlefield is incredibly congested.

 

[sev]

Is your oversized party fighting in corridors all the time?

short answer: Yes.

We've been spending a lot of time in twisty little passages, except when we're inside the hallways of houses, so, yes, we're fighting our way out of corridors a lot. When all the players show up, the back 1 or 2 characters are more than 5 squares away from the action during the first round of combat. Not a party-breaker, certainly. Just annoying for the cleric in the back with a Ranged 5 Sacred Flame, who spends a lot of first-rounds delaying.

Regarding the original topic, if I were playing a thrown-weapon seeker the shorter range would *absolutely* change my tactics as compared to a bow-wielding seeker. Short range is not a deal-breaker, but it does reduce flexibility (finding cover being my favorite example) and I'd expect something for that trade-off. And, as DracoSuave points out, that something is accuracy; I hadn't previously noticed the +1 bonus to accuracy with Spiritbond (making that dwarven seeker with throwing hammers even more attractive for me).

 

[DracoSuave]

The other thing to note, spiritbond actually -wants- a monster to swing at it... a free 1[W]+Strength damage roll that doesn't require an attack roll just for swing-and-a-miss is nothing to sneeze at.

They also have Hunter's Instinct as a level 2 utility, giving them crit range of 19-20 vs enemies within 2 squares, which happens all the time for these guys.

At level 6, they can use a minor action to negate long range penalties until EoNT...

Getting close isn't as much of a problem for these guys as you'd think at first glance.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It is really funyy sometimes to read what are dealbreakers. Clerics also have no shield proficiency and lousy weapons. The have to pay the same feat tax to get to the point where the throwing weapon seeker should be.

3 feats sounds like a lot, but you will have it latest at level 4 and you can live with a light shield at first level easily. (I wouldn´t recommend the heavy shield actually.)

 

[Herschel]

The thing that bugs me a bit is it's another Str/Wis optimal class choice. I'd rather it be Str/Int for "variety".

 

[Deverash]

For the thrown weapon seeker I'm working on, I think i'm going to go Bolo Training. +4 bonus to hit, and the ability to not deal damage and immobilize? And still get all the other effects of the power? Sounds good to me.