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D&D General What elements does D&D need to keep?

Which of the following elements should D&D keep in future editions?

  • Using multiple types of dice

    Votes: 110 84.6%
  • Ability scores (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha)

    Votes: 115 88.5%
  • Distinct character races/lineages

    Votes: 97 74.6%
  • Distinct character classes

    Votes: 124 95.4%
  • Alignment

    Votes: 45 34.6%
  • Backgrounds

    Votes: 49 37.7%
  • Multiclassing

    Votes: 59 45.4%
  • Feats

    Votes: 55 42.3%
  • Proficiencies

    Votes: 59 45.4%
  • Levels

    Votes: 121 93.1%
  • Experience points

    Votes: 56 43.1%
  • Hit points

    Votes: 113 86.9%
  • Hit dice

    Votes: 52 40.0%
  • Armor Class

    Votes: 104 80.0%
  • Lists of specific equipment

    Votes: 59 45.4%
  • Saving throws

    Votes: 100 76.9%
  • Surprise

    Votes: 40 30.8%
  • Initiative

    Votes: 87 66.9%
  • Damage types

    Votes: 63 48.5%
  • Lists of specific spells

    Votes: 91 70.0%
  • Conditions

    Votes: 57 43.8%
  • Deities

    Votes: 39 30.0%
  • Great Wheel cosmology

    Votes: 26 20.0%
  • World Axis cosmology

    Votes: 11 8.5%
  • Creature types

    Votes: 57 43.8%
  • Challenge ratings

    Votes: 26 20.0%
  • Lists of specific magic items

    Votes: 75 57.7%
  • Advantage/disadvantage

    Votes: 64 49.2%
  • Other (please specify)

    Votes: 4 3.1%

  • Total voters
    130
  • Poll closed .

Minigiant

Legend
Maybe. Fly I'll give you as being major. Fireball not so much, in that though it looks big and impressive and it's hella fun to cast there's often better ways for a Wizard to mess up the opponents. And the 100 h.p. character was 90 h.p. yesterday; and 2 attacks a turn (at least in my game) is only jumping up from 3/2 attacks, so those are more incremental

Fireball is The game's first real room clearer.

100 hip points pulls you out of Power Word Kill range.

And two attacks a turn doubles your damage or major targets in combat.

Each edition had their own types of "Switch on" abilities and they tended to coalesce around certain level ranges.
 

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Aldarc

Legend
Following from this poll, and as suggested by @Charlaquin in this follow-up thread...

The previous poll asked, "what makes D&D feel like D&D"? This poll takes the same general elements from that poll, but asks a different question - what elements should D&D carry forward into future editions? Vote only for things that you definitely want to see stay in the game; don't vote for the things you could live without, don't care about, or actively want to go away. And remember that this is your opinion; don't vote for what you think will stay, but what you think should stay.

As with the previous poll, you are welcome to elaborate, but please refrain from arguing. Everyone should feel free to share here without criticism.
D&D only needs the five elements: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, and Boron.
 

MGibster

Legend
don’t disagree, but I will point out that one thing the d20 System and its conversions of various other games did was expose those games to a wider audience. I would probably never have learned of Call of Cthulhu had it not been for the d20 conversion, and while the d20 System didn’t do the tone of CoC any favors, it did make the game more approachable to folks who were familiar with D&D but not eager to learn a new system (which at the time was me).
And d20 Call of Cthulhu was a legitimately good game in its own right. It had some fantastic advice for new Keepers, how to run the game in different eras (30s, 40s, 50s, 60s), and even how to incorporate Cthulhu into your D&D game.
 


I honestly don't care about variety. I think there's too much variety in 5E and especially 3.5E.
Hmm. Yeah, we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this. Variety is my second- or third-favorite thing about DnD. Take that away and there's no good reason to choose this system.

(Aside form the fact that other people play it, which makes it easier to find people to play with. But now I wonder if anyone knows if more people are moving to PF2 or OSR.)
 

MGibster

Legend
Nah; D&D has major nostalgia value, and it's the RPG that everyone has heard of. It'd be more shocking if a different system had become as namebranded as D&D did.
The only game I can think of that's come close is Vampire in the 1990s. Vampire was never the household name D&D was in the 1980s, but it did spawn a prime time television show, was featured in an episode of Real Stories of the Highway Patrol, and those of an Evangelical bent may have heard their pastor or radio personality talk about the game.
 


loverdrive

Makin' cool stuff
Hmm. Yeah, we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this. Variety is my second- or third-favorite thing about DnD. Take that away and there's no good reason to choose this system.

(Aside form the fact that other people play it, which makes it easier to find people to play with. But now I wonder if anyone knows if more people are moving to PF2 or OSR.)
I feel like there's a lot more variety in Pathfinder
 

MGibster

Legend
Also, morons.
I'm pretty sure they're called Modrons.
Modron.JPG
 



cbwjm

Hero
Yes to all of the above! Variations of each can be subclasses of fighters, clerics and magic-users. I'm a big fan of the Man of War, Man of Faith, Man of Magic archetypes, whether I'm reading Gordon R. Dickson or Giambattista Vico. Backgrounds, feats, and subclasses handle thieves, assassins and rangers just fine.
Assassin, thief, and ranger could all be skill/power packages that add to other classes. Like, adding assassin to the 3 basic classes and you get fighter (assassin), priest (holy slayer), magic-user (mage slayer).
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
S&P clerics could replace every other class with maybe exception of thief.
The split ability thing was dumb but point buy classes and races had issues as well cleric being front and centre of that.
Even thief wasn't that hard to pull off; you could get select 4 thief skills for 25 points per Spells & Magic. I remember a guy did a bunch of warrior stuff, 4 thief skills and Animal and Plant domains to make a pretty nice ranger facsimile.
 

Greg Benage

Adventurer
Because there is not class for them to be.

The blacksmith doesn't know spells nor how to fight at a high proficiency.

So if your blacksmith's or farmer's village is burned down by a dragon, there is no class for him to take for revenge if all the specialists are gone.

What in the world?!? :D

The blacksmith doesn't know how to fight or use magic, so you should bolt it onto a "class" that gets Dex and Int save proficiencies, sneak attack, and Thieves' Cant?

The blacksmith is a fighter. About all that should tell us is that he's comparatively tough, hard to knock down, knows his way around weapons and armor, and gets extra damage with his hammer. Everything else can come from subclass.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Even thief wasn't that hard to pull off; you could get select 4 thief skills for 25 points per Spells & Magic. I remember a guy did a bunch of warrior stuff, 4 thief skills and Animal and Plant domains to make a pretty nice ranger facsimile.

I think you could also build a cleric with all wizard schools and minor access to healing.

Said "cleric" leveled up faster, 1d8 hd and weapons and armor of cleric.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
I think you could also build a cleric with all wizard schools and minor access to healing.

Said "cleric" leveled up faster, 1d8 hd and weapons and armor of cleric.
Yes, and also had way more spell slots; the only downside was not getting 8th and 9th level slots, which wasn't even a factor until 16th level.

Nobody did that, in my experience; the spellcaster types took 3-4 schools and a bunch of good domains.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Yes, and also had way more spell slots; the only downside was not getting 8th and 9th level slots, which wasn't even a factor until 16th level.

Nobody did that, in my experience; the spellcaster types took 3-4 schools and a bunch of good domains.

I had a wizard player who wanted to do that. I had to say no.

He figured out the level 16 thing as well even if we got that high he didn't care.

The cleric as wizard was pretty damn good.

If I built something like that would probably do 6 schools and some cleric spheres.
 

I feel like there's a lot more variety in Pathfinder
More in PF2, which I would likely enjoy more if I could actually play it.

A lot more in PF1, although a lot of that is rendered false choice because of balance issues. Even if it was balanced, I'd probably say they went overboard.

But 5e has just barely enough for my taste.
 

Minigiant

Legend
What in the world?!? :D

The blacksmith doesn't know how to fight or use magic, so you should bolt it onto a "class" that gets Dex and Int save proficiencies, sneak attack, and Thieves' Cant?

The blacksmith is a fighter. About all that should tell us is that he's comparatively tough, hard to knock down, knows his way around weapons and armor, and gets extra damage with his hammer. Everything else can come from subclass.

The issue is that the blacksmith as a fight is leagues weaker than the trained military soldier, tribal warrior, semiexperienced gladiator, questing crusader, or defender of the forest.

That's the core issue with paring down classes. You cannot boil the Barbarian, Ranger, Monk, or warrior former warrior class down to its elements and include the blacksmith and farmer in the same class. If the Cobbler is a fighter, the Berserker can't be.

D&D is a class based game about archetypes. So there is only so much you could bolt on before it becomes a skill based game. Also the archetype range too much into much to compress down.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
I had a wizard player who wanted to do that. I had to say no.

He figured out the level 16 thing as well even if we got that high he didn't care.

The cleric as wizard was pretty damn good.

If I built something like that would probably do 6 schools and some cleric spheres.
Yea, the upside to using only one class was that class balance ceased to be an issue. A point-buy cleric is straight up better than a wizard, but since there weren't any wizards, it didn't matter.
 

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