What was Alternity like?

Alternity might take the place of the distant uncle in the family tree, or something like that...
Hmmm...maybe so. I'm inexperienced when it comes to Ars Magica. Jonathan Tweet's involvement in both projects probably did serve to help with D20's development. All of the designers pretty much brought a number of experiences to bear with the D20 system. There are elements of Alternity that made it in. Several didn't, of course. And those parts continue to serve as a sharp contrast between how the two systems play.

--Neil
 

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First a caveat, I have only played Alternity twice, and I enjoyed it.

My one critique (and iti's been a while, and I'm probably wrong) revolved around the character generation system. It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20.

For those who know both systems, is this a fair critique?

--Eric
 

ericlboyd said:
First a caveat, I have only played Alternity twice, and I enjoyed it.

My one critique (and iti's been a while, and I'm probably wrong) revolved around the character generation system. It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20.

For those who know both systems, is this a fair critique?

--Eric

Although I've read Alternity, I've never had an opportunity to play it and, as such, I'm not sure about the validity of your point of view. However, even if you're right, your comment is hardly a criticism, but rather a description of a feature of the game. I've no problem with average characters, As a matter of fact, I do prefer games that enforce them, as it is much more heroic this way.
 

ericlboyd said:
My one critique (and iti's been a while, and I'm probably wrong) revolved around the character generation system. It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20.
Never having played Alternity, but are you talking about "point buy" generation systems? We know that D&D has that as an option, and WotC's RPGA campaigns demand it.
 


ericlboyd said:
First a caveat, I have only played Alternity twice, and I enjoyed it.
My one critique (and iti's been a while, and I'm probably wrong) revolved around the character generation system. It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20.
For those who know both systems, is this a fair critique?
--Eric

Eric, it has been a LONG time since I played or ran Alternity, so I can't say that I remember it being the way you say it is (nor can I contradict it). However, as it's a point-based system you can always add more points to the initial generation of characters (which I think I did when I ran a Strikeforce: Morituri mini-campaign with the Alternity rules.
 

ericlboyd said:
My one critique (and iti's been a while, and I'm probably wrong) revolved around the character generation system. It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20.
Well, Alternity characters start out as novices, much like in D&D (though most Alternity PCs have a wider area of expertise than most D&D PCs). With experience, they become more competent, but rarely become tougher (you can buy durability increases with XP, but only a point or two per damage track, and not until reasonably high levels).

You might also be thinking about the way most things in chargen are keyed to ability scores, and having a strict limit of 60 points between the six scores. This means that you can't really have a stellar score in one ability without also having crappy scores eleswhere (although you could have one at 14 - human max - and the rest at 9 - human average - with one point to spare) It should be noted that "Joe Average" has an average score of 9 in his abilities, for a total of 54 - so PCs are already a cut above the common man.

There was a revision of the rules released online a year or so after the original (non-limited) release that upped the power level of characters slightly. Instead of getting (Int-1)*5 skill points, you got (Int*3)+30 points (or something like that) which gives more skill points unless you have Int 18 or more (which would be almost impossible). It also made it somewhat cheaper to increase skills, removing the increasing cost per skill rank.
 

It seemed to me at the the time that the Alternity character generation system was "zero sum". In other words, the characters never felt very heroic (and by that I mean above average), unlike, for example, d20....For those who know both systems, is this a fair critique?
Hi, Eric. I've actively gamed with both systems (Alternity and D20) for several years now. And I can definitely back Sean up with regards to elevating the points allocated within Alternity's character generation system to fit whatever game you've got in mind.

For instance, within the Alternity Gamemaster's Guide, you're presented with a number of random ability score generation methods beyond just the 60-point point-buy approach. In addition, Alternity goes to great lengths to explain and support different play-styles, defining three different "levels" of power: Realistic, Heroic, and Superheroic. Depending on which play-style you and your gaming group prefer, you've got optional ways of bumping up the points available during character generation.

There was a revision of the rules released online a year or so after the original (non-limited) release that upped the power level of characters slightly.
Those rules are referred to as Options 2A-2C, and they define a better method for handling skill point allocation during character generation...as well as how skills are purchased later in a hero's career. Those options have become pretty much standard Alternity canon these days. Since the A-team posted them to the Alternity mailing list several years back, they're as official as if they'd appeared in a 2nd Edition Alternity Player's Handbook. The official Alternity fansite has also collected and posted those optional rules for download by anyone that's interested.

My two-cents,
--Neil
 

...this thread got me re-thinking of the StarDrive setting and I dug it out and re-read it. It's really an incredible piece of work.
If you're at all interested in seeing what the official fansite community for STAR*DRIVE has created, you can visit them at TS.net. Anyone who's familiar with the TransVerge News reports that were once hosted on Wizards' website, might also find the following supplement useful. I'll be up front and acknowledge that it's a shameless plug for something I wrote myself. But a lot of people contributed to its crafting, and I think it really came out as a very worthy resource for STAR*DRIVE fans. I doubt anyone has really talked about it much at ENWorld before. So consider this a small advertisement for the underground Alternity and STAR*DRIVE communities.

Thanks,
--Neil
 

Last summer I played Alternity almost exclusively. My wife's brother and his friends all really enjoyed the modern X-Files feel of Dark*Matter and I had brought my laptop but no gaming books ... I'd bought a few Alternity things to convert, and for about 15 bucks I picked up the core books as PDFs and a few other things. It was alot of fun.

I really enjoy Alternity, on the whole, and find it a very usable and elegant system ... but there ARE a few flaws with it that I don't think others have really pointed out.

1) "Saving Throws" ... while everything is "skill based", and that's a good thing, there are some problems with it. It's very easy to ignore or forget about skills that may come up very often, slowing or stopping games entirely if the GM isn't good about reminding players they need them. This couples largely with my next problem. So you can do a CoC style game, but if one player doesn't realize that he needs "Mental Resistance" and puts no ranks into it, well, he's well and truly buggered.

2) Untrained Skill Checks -- Making a check untrained involves rolling at HALF the matched skill. With abilities ranging from 4-14, the best you can really hope for is to shoot for a 7. The base difficulty for those checks is 1d20+1d4 ... so the chances of making an untrained check are abysmal. As above, if you don't buy up a few "saving throw" type skills, you may find yourself entirely defenseless against something that comes up regularly. This is all well and good if a player knowingly makes that decision, but playing a "rough and willful" character and only realizing halfway in that he forgot Mental Resistance and gets dominated by psionic creatures constantly could be rough.

3) Combat bogs down quite a bit. You roll to shoot, unless they rolled to dodge, then your roll to shoot is changed, you hit, so you roll for damage based on the SUCCESS of that hit, and they roll Armor to absorb your hit, so your hit might be entirely unaffected. With the success gradient system you often roll SMALLER dice as your success increases. The damage that gets done is more severe, but of a smaller number, which makes their armor MORE likely to entirely absorb it. While some damage will get through on smaller tracks, we found it quite possible for people to take LESS damage if people regularly rolled Amazing successes against them. Even moderate armor then created situations in which people soaked up a rather extraordinary number of "hits". Or, if somebody was even moderately dedicated to not getting hit, situations in which the enemy had to roll up to 3d20 to attack, making that character more or less immune to ranged combat.

--fje
 

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