D&D 5E Zard's S Tier Archetypes

[Zardnaar]

I don't think anyone is evaluating Death Cleric without Toll the Dead. It's enough to make it average rather than poor, and even an average cleric is a strong class. But, post-Tasha's the "S" cleric is easy to spot - it's Twilight.

You only need to be level 7 for Shadow Blade, which is hardly what I would consider high level. Besides, I think ATs are mostly highly regarded for Find Familiar, which they get at level 3. But, if them not to be "S" at low level, that means something else must be better. Which rogue subclass do you consider a better low level option?

I think Forge gets rated up because of it's ability to supply magic weapons at low level, which can make the difference between an easy win and "run away! Run away!". But you millage may vary if your game is magic weapon rich anyway.

I'll save you the bother. It's better than Death, but worse than Twilight.

Yeah I read it a while ago didn't impress me.

Twilight, Forge, Order iirc all better off the top of my head.

I don't think I would put any rogue S tier early on. Maybe very specific builds with specific feats.

I like Forge domain for the record personally I put it A tier shrugs.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think I would put any rogue S tier early on. Maybe very specific builds with specific feats.

By definition, something has to be better. Even if it's only better by way of having better development potential in the future.

I find swashbucklers are popular, but I think that is because they are easy to play rather than strong. But the AT has a lot of exploration tier strengths as well as strong combat abilities.

If you want to go look at something, you should check out the Glamour bard. That is rated very highly in my circle.

 

[Aldarc]

Death cleric got a lot better with xanathars and toll the dead. They can also smite with indict or even vampiric touch and regain the extra hit points.

Dungeon Dudes over rated heavy armor and martial weapons on clerics IMHO.

I agree that DDs overrate heavy armor on clerics, which is abundantly clear when watching their multiclass video.

For example they talk about casting shadow blade and haste as an arcane trickster. That not going to happen a lot in most games and when it does that's S tier hence why I said the AT is really good later on.

IMO, the AT is S Tier basically at all levels for Rogue simply in how the subclass increases the versatility of the class. While other Rogue subclasses remain the same with each new Xanathar's and Tasha's, a AT's range of possible spells increases as a wizard's does. Find Familiar is probably the most common non-Illusion/Enchantment pick for ATs at level 3.

Alit of people also over rate the forge cleric imho. It's extra damage is fire, it's MAD if you use heavy armor and it's channel divinity isn't that great imho.

It's good though personally I would put it in A tier though.

Poison and fire damage very common resistance/immunity.

It's not that MAD IME actually playing a Forge cleric from 1-10. You are mainly just concerned about Wisdom and then Strength, but it's not that difficult to achieve, and I played one using a Hill Dwarf. You can also use your +1 Forge ability on a weapon to compensate for Strength in the earlier levels.

While fire damage is a common resistance, it's still bonus damage. And most of what you are facing in the level 1-10 branch will be things like non-fire resistant humanoids. There are even more monsters that are vulnerable to fire than other damage types. I can't really recall facing too much in my campaign (levels 6-10) that actually were fire resistant. Most of the time, it was pure bonus damage. But if you are facing something fire immune, then you are better off falling back on your cleric spells anyway.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's easy to get confused over resistances. "A lot of monsters listed in the monster manual have fire resistance" is not the same as "most of the monsters we are fighting have fire resistance". If you look at what the party are actually fighting most of the time, it tends to be poison, necrotic resistance, and resistance to non-magical weapons. But most common is no resistance at all.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's easy to get confused over resistances. "A lot of monsters listed in the monster manual have fire resistance" is not the same as "most of the monsters we are fighting have fire resistance". If you look at what the party are actually fighting most of the time, it tends to be poison, necrotic resistance, and resistance to non-magical weapons. But most common is no resistance at all.

True but all clerics get bonus damage in some way. Other types get radiance for example.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

True but all clerics get bonus damage in some way. Other types get radiance for example.

Radiance is really good, but it won't stop a troll regenerating. Fire, on the other hand is much better than necrotic, poison, or lightning*, when you look at what the cleric is usually fighting. And most of the time, the type of damage doesn't matter at all.

*There is quite a lot of outright immunity to lightning.

 

[Zardnaar]

Radiance is really good, but it won't stop a troll regenerating. Fire, on the other hand is much better than necrotic, poison, or lightning*, when you look at what the cleric is usually fighting. And most of the time, the type of damage doesn't matter at all.

*There is quite a lot of outright immunity to lightning.

Yeah lightning is kinda bad. Not much vulnerable to it either.

There was a list floating around, frost and poison are bad, fire by the numbers bad but has more positives, psychic, radiant, force very good.

Necrotic highly placed as well and it's not hard as a cleric to bust out radiance if you do encounter undead.

 

[Aldarc]

I don't think that the damage type of a Cleric's ribbon ability makes or breaks a cleric when it comes to the tier list, unless it was something particularly egregious like Poison.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think that the damage type of a Cleric's ribbon ability makes or breaks a cleric when it comes to the tier list, unless it was something particularly egregious like Poison.

Not by itself but you have things like the light cleric that's loaded with awesome sauce.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah lightning is kinda bad. Not much vulnerable to it either.

There was a list floating around, frost and poison are bad, fire by the numbers bad but has more positives, psychic, radiant, force very good.

Necrotic highly placed as well and it's not hard as a cleric to bust out radiance if you do encounter undead.

Those numbers are based on how often those resistances appear in the MM, not on how often those creatures are typically encountered. The typical adventurer fights lots of undead, and a lot of undead are at least resistant to necrotic damage. And many of the monsters with cold resistance are rarely encountered.

Certainly psychic, radiant and force damage are good, but so is Thunder, and (people forget this) magical s/p/b.

Fire, cold and acid are middle tier.