Changeover Poll

[Scribble]

Eh, Craft is not, in my opinion, anywhere near a big change. It's extremely easy to put back.

Radical changes, IMO, include stuff like "all classes have mystical powers," "wizards are completely nerfed," "half the Forgotten Realms is gone," "what Great Wheel," "everyone can heal themselves automagically," "every class feature has to deal damage, even the ones that buff, heal, or create illusions," "a race of demonically cursed humanoids is now core - horned dudes are everywhere; oh yeah, so are the anthro lizards," "heavens forbid that a spellcaster should actually pick up a crossbow somtimes..." and so on.

Yeah craft was just the first thing that came to mind. But my point stil remains the same.

Had the GSL been more accepted, I think there would have been more people playing around with those areas people had issues with, and I think it would have done a lot to get more people on board.

Again, I will not say it would have done it for everyone, but I feel it would have done a lot to help.

 

[Gothmog]

That right there is what has kept me from even buying the books. Every complaint I had about the 4e rules system was met with cries of "houserule it." But by the time I made a list of all the things I was being told I would have to house rule, I realized that if I have to completely rewrite the system then why not just stick with a system where on a bad day I feel like changing maybe 5-10% max and on a good day I can play it as is.

Its ironic that when I brought up many of the problems I had with 3.x D&D three years ago, I was told the same thing..."houserule it- D&D 3.x can handle anything." My list of houserules to "fix" 3.x was over 50 pages long, and even then it didn't address every problem since some were built into the game and mathematical progression of the system, and a suitable overhaul would have required a complete rewrite of the game (basically what 4e did). In the end, we quit 3.x and went and played WHFRP2 or AD&D 2e for our fantasy until 4e came out. 4e is giving me and my group what we want from our D&D play, with just TWO pages of houserules (mostly involving healing and long-term injuries, and alternative uses of Action Points). No one system can handle every playstyle or is perfect for everybody- not even the almighty 3.x.

 

[DaveMage]

Its ironic that when I brought up many of the problems I had with 3.x D&D three years ago, I was told the same thing..."houserule it- D&D 3.x can handle anything." My list of houserules to "fix" 3.x was over 50 pages long, and even then it didn't address every problem since some were built into the game and mathematical progression of the system, and a suitable overhaul would have required a complete rewrite of the game (basically what 4e did). In the end, we quit 3.x and went and played WHFRP2 or AD&D 2e for our fantasy until 4e came out. 4e is giving me and my group what we want from our D&D play, with just TWO pages of houserules (mostly involving healing and long-term injuries, and alternative uses of Action Points). No one system can handle every playstyle or is perfect for everybody- not even the almighty 3.x.

Interesting.

The size of my houserules for 3.x: 0 pages.

 

[Gothmog]

Interesting.

The size of my houserules for 3.x: 0 pages.

Yep, just goes to show you that different folks have different goals, tastes, and playstyles, and NO system can handle what everbody likes. Which is why its good we have a variety of games.

 

[DaveMage]

Yep, just goes to show you that different folks have different goals, tastes, and playstyles, and NO system can handle what everbody likes. Which is why its good we have a variety of games.

No doubt.

I'm surprised you had the patience to stick with 3.x once the house rules started mounting so much. I don't think I would have.

 

[Gothmog]

No doubt.

I'm surprised you had the patience to stick with 3.x once the house rules started mounting so much. I don't think I would have.

At the time, two of my players really liked 3.x, so I figured I'd try to tough it out. We like lower magic/gritty fantasy games with more human(ish) classed opponents, which is something we found 3.x didn't do well with. Our main issues were with the cosmology, the ease and accessibility of magic (my group always liked magic as dangerous and risky, requiring casting rolls and having critical failure results), different traditions of magic based on culture, magical materials to be used for casting spells/item creation, ritual magic, combat maneuvers for non-magical classes (similar to 4e powers), defensive bonuses to AC that scaled with level and class (which also had to be applied to monster ACs), long-term injury and healing, etc. We tried with our collectively written houserules for about a year, but in the end, it just wasn't a satisfying play experience. D&D 4e addressed most of those issues, and fits our tastes and playstyle a lot better.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Had the GSL been more accepted, I think there would have been more people playing around with those areas people had issues with, and I think it would have done a lot to get more people on board.

Exactly. A rollback.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

If it was sold to a private company there is no requirement to make as much as possible. If the owner of a private company is happy just breaking even then that is fine.

Uh huh.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Real life issues slowed down our Midwood campaigns, so we haven't even come close to the potential changeover event (the Night of Dissolution). As a result, I haven't even finished reading the 4E corebooks, although I'll do so this spring and make a determination when the campaigns wind to a close this year.

We had one person who was violently opposed to 4E when it came out, but given how much important serious real stuff has happened in all our lives, I suspect everyone will go along with majority rule (whichever way it goes; it's hard to guess at this point, months out) without much argument now.

 

[Scribble]

Exactly. A rollback.

Shrug, maybe? Maybe not?

Maybe something that fills the gap but in a 4e way. A lot of stuff like that happened in 3e with 3pp.

Like with the craft skill:

My idea would be to not just add it as a skill in the list, but to add it as a feat/instructions combo like alchemy or rituals.

Same idea (my dude can make stuff!) but with a 4e like spin.