D&D 5E Spectres, Hit point loss and temp HP

[trentonjoe]

Last night our group fought some spectres and a wraith.

On a hit, spectres and wraiths cause a saving throw which if you fail the damage comes off your MAX hit points as well. We had a problem ruling on TEMP hit points.


Here are the #'s:

Fighter has 40 MAX hit points and 10 temp hit points.

Wraith hits him for 15 points of damage.

Fighter fails save.


These were our three options:

1. Temp hit points are used first. Fighter loses all temp hp and 5 regular hitpoints, MAX now 35.
2. Temp hit points are not used. Fighter keep temp but loses 15 off of regular hit points. MAX now 25 but still has 10 temp.
3. Temp hit points are used AND 15 comes of the max. Fighter now has MAX of 25 and no temps.


The only RULE we could find that seemed appopriate was that TEMP HP are always used first. We ended up going with 1 but I wanted to see if we were missing something.

 

[KarinsDad]

#1 is correct. The "damage taken" is the actual damage taken, not the damage rolled. Anything that lowers damage (Arcane Ward, temp hit points, damage resist, Heavy Armor Master) all come off first and it's the actual damage taken and subtracted from current total that is also subtracted from total hit points.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd rule 1 or 2. Actually, I'd rule 1 or a wraith could never kill him -- it would eventually reduce his max hp to 0 but he'd retain 10 temp hp!

 

[bganon]

Yeah, I'd rule loss of temp hp is not really "damage taken", so I'd go with option #1. It's favorable to the PCs and makes temp hp pretty powerful, but Spectres are nasty business anyway. Since PCs possibly only have temp hp at the beginning of the fight, it gives players a bit of a "warning shot" about the HP drain.

 

[Celtavian]

I recall reading that Temp hit points can't keep you conscious or alive if you're at 0 hit points.

 

[Agglomérante]

Fighter has 40 MAX hit points and 10 temp hit points.

What are the 10 temp hit points? Where do they come from?

 

[trentonjoe]

The feat, Inspiring Leader or something like that.

The actual numbers were like 38 and 6, I just rounded up to make the math easy.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Option 3 is the correct ruling. A character with 10 temporary hit points who takes 15 points of damage has STILL taken 15 points of damage. There is NOTHING in the rules that suggests that damage to temporary hit points doesn't count as real damage. Yes, this makes temporary hit points less effective against life draining attacks.

 

[Dausuul]

Energy-drain abilities reduce your max hit points by an amount equal to the damage taken. So the question is, does damage absorbed by temp hit points count as "damage taken?" The Temporary Hit Points rules say:

When you have temporary hit points and take damage, the temporary hit points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your normal hit points. For example, if you have 5 temporary hit points and take 7 damage, you lose the temporary hit points and then take 2 damage.

It's a little ambiguous, but based on the second sentence, my reading is "No, it does not count as damage taken." So the answer would be #1, the fighter loses all temp hp and 5 regular hit points, and his max is reduced to 35.

If you read it the other way (damage absorbed by temp hp does count), then #3 is the correct answer and the fighter is screwed. There is no plausible reading of the RAW which leads to #2. Despite that, I would strongly consider going with #2 as my ruling at the table, mostly because I feel like the fighter should eat the full penalty for failing the save but shouldn't be arbitrarily deprived of 10 extra hit points.

 

[Raunalyn]

As Dausuul says, life drain reduces your max hit points by an amount equal to the damage you're taking.

Temp hit points are a buffer against damage. So, if you take 15 damage, and you have 10 temps, you are actually only taking 5 points of damage.

Going by that ruling, I would go with option 1; you are actually only taking 5 damage, so your max hit points are reduced by that amount.