D&D 5E Do I get sneak attack if I throw a Rapier or whack someone with my heavy crossbow

[Charlaquin]

The "heavy" property means a small character has disadvantage when using it. If a gnome throws a 10-lb maul, isn't the fact that it's a non-proficient attack that does 1d4 damage penalty enough?

I’m not particularly concerned with the penalty in this case - a Small character probably wouldn’t be wielding a maul to begin with, let alone try to throw it. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the notion that a maul would somehow stop being heavy when thrown.

 

[cbwjm]

Such an innocent question leading to 5 pages of arguments.

I'd rule no to both according to my understanding of the rules. That rapier isn't a ranged weapon and since it is being used as an improvised weapon it no longer has finesse. That crossbow is no longer counted as a ranged weapon when you smack someone with it, an improvised weapon so it loses that property. So no sneak attack for either of them.

 

[Maxperson]

The "heavy" property means a small character has disadvantage when using it. If a gnome throws a 10-lb maul, isn't the fact that it's a non-proficient attack that does 1d4 damage penalty enough?

No. It doesn't suddenly become lighter when a small character throws it. The disadvantage should also apply.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Ok?

If you were at my table and demanded to have disadvantage to throw something weighing 10 lbs, I would certainly give it to you...just not to any other players.

 

[fearsomepirate]

No. It doesn't suddenly become lighter when a small character throws it. The disadvantage should also apply.

A longbow is also "heavy" and weighs 2 lbs. Why should it be harder to slap somebody with a longbow than any other 2-lb stick of the same length?

 

[Charlaquin]

If you were at my table and demanded to have disadvantage to throw something weighing 10 lbs, I would certainly give it to you...just not to any other players.

The “ok?” was in response to the pre-edit version of your post, where all you said was that the DM could rule that an improvised weapon did more than 1d4 damage. Since you edited your post to say something completely different, see the edited version of my response to it.

 

[Maxperson]

A longbow is also "heavy" and weighs 2 lbs. Why should it be harder to slap somebody with a longbow than any other 2-lb stick of the same length?

They wouldn't. This is another example of where the DM has to use his head. The "heavy" part of the longbow is simply for the standard usage. A Halfling cannot effectively draw back the string and fire the bow, so it was given the heavy property. A maul on the other hand...

 

[Swarmkeeper]

RAW often comes up with some silly combinations of things. When that happens, I need to fix the issue. I would allow sneak attack with a handaxe to work when used in melee as well. It's not like it breaks anything to allow the axe to be used that way. I find the Sneak Attack weapon limitations to be arbitrary and in many cases, nonsensical. Size is more the factor with me. Most weapons that are heavy, two handed, lances, etc. would not be usable, but the rest are fine.

Ok, so I've been arguing what RAW is and you've been disagreeing by... arguing for what you do b/c you feel sneak attack RAW is silly? Now I think I understand where you are coming from. Thanks for the clarification.

By the way, I don't necessarily disagree with you that the Sneak Attack weapon RAW limitations are somewhat arbitrary, but one might argue that for many of the 5e rules. But rules do exist as a baseline.

 

[Umbran]

For the record, I actually think it’s really dumb that throwing melee weapons or attacking in melee with ranged weapons causes them to lose their properties (does a maul stop being heavy if you throw it?

Well, a longbow is "heavy", but weighs all of 2 lbs. So "heavy" is not terribly literal.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I’m not particularly concerned with the penalty in this case - a Small character probably wouldn’t be wielding a maul to begin with, let alone try to throw it. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the notion that a maul would somehow stop being heavy when thrown.

"Heavy" in 5e isn't a weight property. See earlier that longbows are "heavy," despite weighing only 2 lbs. It's just question of whether a small character can wield it normally. If you slap somebody with your longbow, it's just a stick of about 4' in length with a string on it. Seems to me there shouldn't be any special hindrance to stop a halfling from doing so, unless you're going to rule that all random sticks, poles, dowels, and rods count as "heavy" for improvised weapon purposes if they are over 4' in length.