D&D General Maybe I was ALWAYs playing 4e... even in 2e

[niklinna]

I think "HP are not meat" is the biggest sticking point for a lot of people. Reason being: if HP are not meat, then why do you die when they run out? Since you die when you run out of HP, clearly they're meat...or at least meat adjacent.

Simple. They are blood oxygen.

Or blood glucose.

Or maybe just blood?

Oh wait, what about things like poison, disease, or radiation damage? HP must be a measure of the integrity of the DNA and cytoskeletons of all your cells. Yeah, that's it.

Or...maybe it's an abstract meter determining how long you're "allowed" to stay in the fight, because anything more involved gets complicated fast.

ObPython:

"'Tis but a scratch!"

"But we didn't eat the salmon mousse!"

"Can we have your liver?"

 

[Aldarc]

I think "HP are not meat" is the biggest sticking point for a lot of people. Reason being: if HP are not meat, then why do you die when they run out? Since you die when you run out of HP, clearly they're meat...or at least meat adjacent.

Plenty of people die with all of their bodily meat intact.

 

[Garthanos]

Plenty of people die with all of their bodily meat intact.

Because shock is a thing and can onset over terrifyingly minor things?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Plenty of people die with all of their bodily meat intact.

i mean even in D&D that can happen with psychic damage.... you can "Your mama so fat" a goblin to death if you are a bard

 

[Vaalingrade]

i mean even in D&D that can happen with psychic damage.... you can "Your mama so fat" a goblin to death if you are a bard

He gets so appalled that he faints, then bangs his head on a table on his way down.

 

[Horwath]

i mean even in D&D that can happen with psychic damage.... you can "Your mama so fat" a goblin to death if you are a bard

you upset him too much, blood pressure rises, blood clot breaks of, stroke, dies

 

[Horwath]

4E did have good things that made into 5e in some way or the other.

At-will cantrips;
yeah it's hot topic about power level of them, but IMHO it's not a big deal. And it sure feel a lot better as caster to throw some minor damage with a spell than with a crossbow. And even on 11th level, if you are throwing 3d10 firebolts, you are doing something very suboptimal with you Action.

Healing surges;
We got HD healing instead, I would say that 4E did it better

Short rest;
we got that too, still 4E did it better with 5 min instead of 1hr.


but, there is lots wrong with 4E.

Number treadmill: with +1/2 level base increase, ASIs, feats and up to +6 items, you get almost +1 every level on attack and defenses.
That was crazy.
funny thing is that 4E works a lot better when you remove +1/2 per level(enter homebrew bounded accuracy before it was cool)

but, probably the worst was presentation,
they tried to make 4E look like a video game,
we have video games, we want a table top RPG, not PCRPG.

also all spell description was very short, basically row of numbers without any description, fluff. nothing

3.5e Fireball:

Fireball 4E:

 

[Vaalingrade]

Number treadmill: with +1/2 level base increase, ASIs, feats and up to +6 items, you get almost +1 every level on attack and defenses.
That was crazy.

Actually feeling like you were improving and being able to build to be consistently good at things without being a rogue or bard was actually awesome.

 

[Charlaquin]

but, probably the worst was presentation,
they tried to make 4E look like a video game,
we have video games, we want a table top RPG, not PCRPG.

You say worst, I say best. It doesn’t look like any video game I’ve ever played (not that it would be a bad thing of it did, video games are often pretty damn good at user-friendly design), but it did, for once in the game’s history, finally make it fast and easy to figure out what in the blazes your abilities actually do.

also all spell description was very short, basically row of numbers without any description, fluff. nothing
Fireball 4E:
View attachment 156412

Sorry, what do you call those two italic lines just under the header?

 

[Charlaquin]

Actually feeling like you were improving and being able to build to be consistently good at things without being a rogue or bard was actually awesome.

Meh. Horizontal progression > vertical progression any day of the week if you ask me.