D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[FlyingChihuahua]

If the DM doesn't want them, they can ban the class.

That both sends the wrong message and is like trying to kill a fly with a nuke.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That both sends the wrong message and is like trying to kill a fly with a nuke.

So...why not have an adult conversation?

And if you can't have an adult conversation, why are you choosing to play with this person? In anything, not just D&D?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Where in the PHB does it explicitly say your patron can withdraw your powers once granted?

(I'm not going to argue about what the text does or does not imply, because that argument never goes anywhere. But if we're going to talk about what is explicitly in the fiction... either there is a place where it says flat-out that your patron can take your powers away, or there isn't.)

Withdraw by sending "people" to collect your soul, right, now.

 

[Shiroiken]

I don't disallow any of them, but revivify is the only one I've really seen in play.

Having had a campaign go to 17th level and experiencing the same, that's why I've banned it. It's a cheaper, penalty free resurrection magic that is always the best choice. The limitation of 1 minute came up twice during the game, but all it did was require the caster to spend an action in combat. Death is uncommon enough in 5E, so I don't feel like cheapening it further.

 

[Aurel Guthrie]

There’s the saying- if you sit down at a poker table and you don’t know who the mark is, you’re the mark.

Relatedly, anyone who says that they are low maintenance is not, in fact, low maintenance.

Rounding out the trifecta, if someone is saying that they just can’t figure out what a power gamer is and demanding you provide a strict definition (because that would give them something to argue about)…. then, yeah, you’ve found the power gamer.

Or maybe you found someone with anxiety who is afraid of being labelled a powergamer by just playing normally. Asking for clarification is normal, especially since, reading this thread, a lot of people have a different definition of what is a powergamer

 

[tetrasodium]

Having had a campaign go to 17th level and experiencing the same, that's why I've banned it. It's a cheaper, penalty free resurrection magic that is always the best choice. The limitation of 1 minute came up twice during the game, but all it did was require the caster to spend an action in combat. Death is uncommon enough in 5E, so I don't feel like cheapening it further.

That's been my experience as well, I don't know what it was in 4e but 5e made the spell pretty insane. I'm pretty revivify got added in 3.5 with the spell compendium That version took 1000gp of diamonds rather than 300gp had a touch range with movement trivially triggering AoOs rather than OAs required casting within one round rather than a minute & required every cast to be prepared for the spell slot it consumed ahead of time with vancian casting. There were any number of reasons why a caster might not be able to get to bob within one round or feel like doing so would result in joining bob in death.... Bumping the time while reducing the cost so dramatically in so many ways just makes ithard not to question the thought process involved.

 

[CreamCloud0]

preface this with does this warlock-patron tangent want to find it's own thread or we just letting it run it's course?

personally i don't expect a warlock to be needing to constantly be out there in service to their patron's goals and desires (unless that was explicitly part of their deal but that's a matter for character fluff), the patron is usually happy enough to let them do their own thing most of the time so long as they aren't actively working against their goals, but i feel like every now and then a patron should drop in and say "hello how are you, enjoying using those arcane powers i'm supplying are we? well thing is i need something taken care of real quick so if you'd like to keep using those powers i'd get on it sharpish" even if it's something as innocuous as making a burnt offering of food or burying a pouch of five gold, just to remind them who's boss, they let the warlock get comfortable having their bit of power so that they have something to loose when they threaten to remove it.

 

[FrozenNorth]

There's lots of options, but it is lazy and frustrating to start with "you made a dark bargain for power" and not then actually have any terms.

I disagree. There are about a myriad of different ways a patron can interact with the warlock, and the last thing the class needs is to narrow it to a single outcome by including specific mechanics.

How would that work, anyway? The PHB indicates that your patron may be unaware or indifferent to you, so it doesn’t make sense to have them withdraw your powers willy-nilly in all cases. Or that the pact may have been concluded with one of your ancestors.

 

[FrozenNorth]

"Using the power of evil for good" and the "Servant rebel" are two of the biggest plotlines for a warlock style character. Not allowing it would fail the promise of the premise.

This is true. But it is also a hard story to run in a game without making the patron look unintelligent to a degree that may break immersion.

But not impossible.

I think doing these stories well really requires a high degree of coordination between the player and the DM (which itself may break immersion for certain players).

 

[Micah Sweet]

I disagree. There are about a myriad of different ways a patron can interact with the warlock, and the last thing the class needs is to narrow it to a single outcome by including specific mechanics.

How would that work, anyway? The PHB indicates that your patron may be unaware or indifferent to you, so it doesn’t make sense to have them withdraw your powers willy-nilly in all cases. Or that the pact may have been concluded with one of your ancestors.

They could have provided some suggestions, so the DM has something to point to when they actually try to enforce the pact.

Here my issue in a nutshell: what does the PC get out of the pact? Up to 20 levels of explicit supernatural powers they can use as they see fit, for or against the interests of the being from whom they were received.

What does the patron get out of the pact? Some story beats that may or may not come up in the game and which the PC can ignore with no direct consequence if they do.

In my experience, most players pick their class based on the specific cool stuff it lets them do. That stuff is far more important to them than an implied story of where it came from with no mechanical teeth. I don't blame them. I blame the book for not trying harder, the culture for encouraging this behavior, and myself for allowing this sort of thing to go forward without challenge.