D&D General Bad gaming experiences and how they made you a better player/GM...
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TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
There are some common threads, we could probably put together a poll.
*I need to buy all the books (or sub category there of) and try to get players (or myself) to use: This was 2e, and fortunately it was crunch, not the vast amount of setting stuff. We just didn't have it for 1E...it got pretty out control before the lesson was learned. Both in books, but also in game play as various changes were shove in. Which leads to...
*Massive and constant house ruling to the point were it is another game, and then keep going so it is another!
*Yes, the DMPC. In this same, very formative campaign, I had lots of authoritative and somewhat interesting NPCs that did give key information and guidance to the PCs, but I never crossed that line. Then I bring in this Viking skald (it was a fantasy earth) to do the same thing, but with the group while adventuring. I thought the character was very cool. It fell so flat, I could just tell from the players faces. (I find that NPCs with some kind of clear flaw or weakness can work well in cases like this. In one case, I had the lead NPC get himself killed in the first session, leaving the players effectively in the adventure).
*Downtime all the time. Same game. Playing weekly, and we would play out merchants and waiters and so on and on. Later on lots of interaction with henchman, staff and servants. But not too bad. Though it was really seeing it as a player that I got it--it was modern day, and we were at point of high tension, and the GM had us play out renting a car, for no reason. Years later, one of my old players joins a game that has been going for a while, and it happened to be a city visit after several dungeon session. Taverns, shopping, PC specific NPC interactions, for just about the whole session. It was really just bad luck, but he dropped the game.
*Telling someone how to play their character: Sometimes advise or coordination is needed, and it took me a while to get this one, but most of the time the DM and other players should just let someone do what they want, within the rules. Its important.
*Saying what the player character does: Even worse is describing what a character does that is not your character. Obviously if the players misses the session then it can be ok. Some transitioning in say a PBP or between sessions maybe ok (maybe) (between scenes, it really has to be summary of clear player intent). This is one lesson I got watching a friend GM and it can be very painful.
*Under preparation: Obvious, but worth noting. And still the biggest a problem I see at a lot of tables. Be ready to DM, and not just in an exactly planned detailed sequence. Its ok to gently restrict choices, or maybe not so gently if it makes sense in context, but you need to be ready and to react with something at least moderately amusing. [This also means be ready with the VTT, the relevant NPC stats, etc, etc]
Probably enough, for now.
*I need to buy all the books (or sub category there of) and try to get players (or myself) to use: This was 2e, and fortunately it was crunch, not the vast amount of setting stuff. We just didn't have it for 1E...it got pretty out control before the lesson was learned. Both in books, but also in game play as various changes were shove in. Which leads to...
*Massive and constant house ruling to the point were it is another game, and then keep going so it is another!
*Yes, the DMPC. In this same, very formative campaign, I had lots of authoritative and somewhat interesting NPCs that did give key information and guidance to the PCs, but I never crossed that line. Then I bring in this Viking skald (it was a fantasy earth) to do the same thing, but with the group while adventuring. I thought the character was very cool. It fell so flat, I could just tell from the players faces. (I find that NPCs with some kind of clear flaw or weakness can work well in cases like this. In one case, I had the lead NPC get himself killed in the first session, leaving the players effectively in the adventure).
*Downtime all the time. Same game. Playing weekly, and we would play out merchants and waiters and so on and on. Later on lots of interaction with henchman, staff and servants. But not too bad. Though it was really seeing it as a player that I got it--it was modern day, and we were at point of high tension, and the GM had us play out renting a car, for no reason. Years later, one of my old players joins a game that has been going for a while, and it happened to be a city visit after several dungeon session. Taverns, shopping, PC specific NPC interactions, for just about the whole session. It was really just bad luck, but he dropped the game.
*Telling someone how to play their character: Sometimes advise or coordination is needed, and it took me a while to get this one, but most of the time the DM and other players should just let someone do what they want, within the rules. Its important.
*Saying what the player character does: Even worse is describing what a character does that is not your character. Obviously if the players misses the session then it can be ok. Some transitioning in say a PBP or between sessions maybe ok (maybe) (between scenes, it really has to be summary of clear player intent). This is one lesson I got watching a friend GM and it can be very painful.
*Under preparation: Obvious, but worth noting. And still the biggest a problem I see at a lot of tables. Be ready to DM, and not just in an exactly planned detailed sequence. Its ok to gently restrict choices, or maybe not so gently if it makes sense in context, but you need to be ready and to react with something at least moderately amusing. [This also means be ready with the VTT, the relevant NPC stats, etc, etc]
Probably enough, for now.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
The big one for me was one of my first attempts to run D&D, many...many years ago.
I wrote up this whole thing. Made the town. Populated it with NPCs. Had this really cool (I thought) twist to a story. Set up a fun action-adventure opening scene...and everything after that opening scene was predicated on the PCs picking up this one hook.
So, of course, the opening scene happens and the players collectively say some version of "That's neat. We don't care..." and the PCs promptly wandered off in the other direction. So I had to improvise the entire game because everything I had prepped was contingent on them taking the first hook.
Learned that lesson hard.
I love the Lazy DM ethos, and use a lot of his advice, but I can't follow it 100%. I have to work with a safety net. Typically in the form of a sandbox to run from. Lots of hooks, lots of prep, lots of NPCs, lots of stuff to bounce off of...then let the players loose.
I wrote up this whole thing. Made the town. Populated it with NPCs. Had this really cool (I thought) twist to a story. Set up a fun action-adventure opening scene...and everything after that opening scene was predicated on the PCs picking up this one hook.
So, of course, the opening scene happens and the players collectively say some version of "That's neat. We don't care..." and the PCs promptly wandered off in the other direction. So I had to improvise the entire game because everything I had prepped was contingent on them taking the first hook.
Learned that lesson hard.
I love the Lazy DM ethos, and use a lot of his advice, but I can't follow it 100%. I have to work with a safety net. Typically in the form of a sandbox to run from. Lots of hooks, lots of prep, lots of NPCs, lots of stuff to bounce off of...then let the players loose.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
From the player's side of things. Watching people argue about game mechanics. I've sat through a dozen or more arguments before...like raised voices...yelling...arguments about game rules, what PCs and NPCs would or should do. It's a game. It's not worth arguing about. So if two people have a conflicting read about a rule and can't come to an agreement after a few minutes of talking...then pick high and low and we roll a d6...and we go with the interpretation of whoever won the roll. That's the end of if until after the session. If it's two players, it's easy to send them away from the table to hash things out and continue the game, but when it's the DM and a player, not so much.
Nefermandias
Hero
That was hilarious!
Funnily enough, there was a time when I mentioned in Reddit how I couldn't wrap my mind around these groups that spend the whole session shopping and chatting in the tavern... Needles to say that my post was downvoted to oblivion.
overgeeked
Open-World Sandbox
It's the masturbation of D&D. Of course Reddit downvoted you for saying anything bad about it.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
I get people like what they like, and fair enough. I just don't understand how one looks at what the rules say the game is about and then ends up making it about that. Or how so many groups just end up there quite by accident, it seems in many cases, during play. But, at least I channeled those game experiences into something productive.
teitan
Legend
Around 96 I was invited to play in a Rifts game. I made a superhero character with all sorts of immunities, buttloads of hit points and flying powers. We started off leaving a settlement when the GM told me I couldn't fly and had to use a speeder bike, ok, I was cool with that, it's a thing. SO we encounter some mutants or some such and I tried to fire a rocket, nuclear compact thing, at them and he tells me I failed, I rolled low, ok, and that my launching system had jammed and I needed to make a saving throw. I rolled and it was a good roll but he told me I needed to make another because the bike was exploding too and also had a nuclear engine. Ok cool cool cool. I pointed out I was immune to radiation and he decided I was not immune if I inhaled it... this SOB went every which way he could to just kill me, ten minutes into the session. After inviting me to play. My immunities didn't matter, as minor as they were compared to my glitter boy playing brother. I put down my sheet and handed him the Rifts book and told everyone to have a good time and went to play Tecmo Super Bowl in my room. What I learned? Don't invite people to game if you don't really want them to play and definitely don't go out of your way to kill a player's character, it's transparent and bad DMing.
no. 2, more recently. My wife and I agree to a Pathfinder 1e game. We buy a bunch of the pocket guides because this is looking like a good long term game. I hem and haw on what character I want to play, I hadn't been a PC since that previous Rifts game outside of a 3 or 4 month Vamp game. I decide I want to play an Inquisitor something (I don't recall the race) and when I show up for the character creation session the DM has soo graciously given my entire character concept to a different player. The whole nine yards. Joyously telling me this... OK, cool cool cool. I make a Drow Magus that worships Graz'zt and hunts devils and demons for him. I planned out 5 levels alternating between rogue and magus since no one picked any class with roguey skills. The first two sessions were a lot of fun. I let the concept thievery slide, no big and I wasn't dead set on it. Annoying sure. Cue a few days before the next session: the DM had been spending a lot of time with my wife, just chilling and hanging out. He has an obvious crush on her but I trust my wife (you'd have to know her to understand WHY LOL). We all worked together and my wife was off for surgery. We had become good friends with him and his girlfriend, chilling at each other's places, cooking and painting minis together and stuff. Well he left work early that night and asked if I would bring his girlfriend home. About 1.5 hours later my wife messages me with OMG. He had come over to our apartment to tell her he can't just be friends with her and he wanted her to make a decision to be with him. Lesson learned? If the DM gives away your character concept before session 0... he probably has an alternative motive. Don't be that DM.
no. 2, more recently. My wife and I agree to a Pathfinder 1e game. We buy a bunch of the pocket guides because this is looking like a good long term game. I hem and haw on what character I want to play, I hadn't been a PC since that previous Rifts game outside of a 3 or 4 month Vamp game. I decide I want to play an Inquisitor something (I don't recall the race) and when I show up for the character creation session the DM has soo graciously given my entire character concept to a different player. The whole nine yards. Joyously telling me this... OK, cool cool cool. I make a Drow Magus that worships Graz'zt and hunts devils and demons for him. I planned out 5 levels alternating between rogue and magus since no one picked any class with roguey skills. The first two sessions were a lot of fun. I let the concept thievery slide, no big and I wasn't dead set on it. Annoying sure. Cue a few days before the next session: the DM had been spending a lot of time with my wife, just chilling and hanging out. He has an obvious crush on her but I trust my wife (you'd have to know her to understand WHY LOL). We all worked together and my wife was off for surgery. We had become good friends with him and his girlfriend, chilling at each other's places, cooking and painting minis together and stuff. Well he left work early that night and asked if I would bring his girlfriend home. About 1.5 hours later my wife messages me with OMG. He had come over to our apartment to tell her he can't just be friends with her and he wanted her to make a decision to be with him. Lesson learned? If the DM gives away your character concept before session 0... he probably has an alternative motive. Don't be that DM.
turnip_farmer
Adventurer
I have a different approach to this. If two people have a conflicting opinion about a rule and haven't come to an agreement after a few seconds, the DM decides. That decision is final.
In regards to the thread question, playing as a player really taught me about overeliance on online tools. Waiting while the DM fiddles around with dynamic lighting or moves pieces you can't see is boring. And the time feels much longer when you're the player with nothing to do that when you're the DM fiddling with 20 things at once. Also, people, both GMs and players, are less descriptive when they're looking at a map. 'This guy moves here' 'I hit that one' - these phrases are meaningless if your token can't see what's going on.
I now use online maps and stuff a lot less. A fight with one enemy in an empty room needs no map. You don't need to move little tokens around to explore a dungeon.
jmartkdr2
Hero
If you remember the article a few months ago about "cultures of gaming" - in the neo-traditional group there's a desire to express the character by having them interact with things. In some ways, that's the point of the game: to let you play out the cool character you made.
The thing is: this doesn't need to be combat. The neo-trad player spent a lot of time and energy build a personality for the character, and they want to show that off, which is a lot easier to do when talking to npc's like shopkeepers. You can't really banter with wolves or even ogres, and pc-to-pc conversations might end up being about the other pc, while an npc is just there to give you something to work off of.
So within that subset of gamers, talking to a shopkeeper is just as much fun as fighting a goblin, because the situations let you use different parts of the characters.
(Of course, there's a limit to how many shopkeepers you can talk to without repeating yourself, and skilled players can do this during pc-to-pc conversations.)
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