D&D (2024) Bard DON"T Suck. Tier List.

[Neonchameleon]

I gave it a C because janking around with a mediocre attack makes you worse at what you should focus on. And it doesn't do a particularly good job at it.

You're probably better off boosting the groups initiative with your bard dice.

It's arguably worse than the old swords bard and I have seen one of them used.

It's only worse than a swords bard if you're trying to run a solo adventurer. The swords bard is I think the most solipsistic self-buffer of any bard subclass, deliberately spending their bardic inspiration on their own attacls. Meanwhile the dance bard is a team buffer and after level 6 is probably the best team buffer of any bard subclass. If you're comparing these two you're doing it wrong.

Damn right you're better boosting initiative is better than a single extra attack. On average boosting the entire party's initiative by 4.5 is worth roughly the same as one random party member getting an entire extra turn each fight. And you have a problem with it because it doesn't also come with a secondary attack under most situations?

 

[Gradine]

Also you dance and kick and that's a hell of a lot of fun

 

[Zardnaar]

It's only worse than a swords bard if you're trying to run a solo adventurer. The swords bard is I think the most solipsistic self-buffer of any bard subclass, deliberately spending their bardic inspiration on their own attacls. Meanwhile the dance bard is a team buffer and after level 6 is probably the best team buffer of any bard subclass. If you're comparing these two you're doing it wrong.

Damn right you're better boosting initiative is better than a single extra attack. On average boosting the entire party's initiative by 4.5 is worth roughly the same as one random party member getting an entire extra turn each fight. And you have a problem with it because it doesn't also come with a secondary attack under most situations?

It's relative to other bards who also get good abilities at 3. Poor, Great and situational abilities add up to a C imho. Opportunity cost Dance bard vs any of the others.

 

[Ashrym]

It's relative to other bards who also get good abilities at 3. Poor, Great and situational abilities add up to a C imho. Opportunity cost Dance bard vs any of the others.

The only significant impact valor bards really get is AC at 3rd level. Dance bards start slightly behind but eventually even up. The typical dance bard is going to be AC 17 at 4th level and go up to 20 barring magic items and other effects. That's not bad in comparison.

The level 6 abilities guarantee a free attack and movement, and I think that tandem footwork is a top tier use of bardic inspiration.

I really don't think any of the 2024 PHB bard subclasses is a bad choice depending on what the player is looking for.

 

[Zardnaar]

The only significant impact valor bards really get is AC at 3rd level. Dance bards start slightly behind but eventually even up. The typical dance bard is going to be AC 17 at 4th level and go up to 20 barring magic items and other effects. That's not bad in comparison.

The level 6 abilities guarantee a free attack and movement, and I think that tandem footwork is a top tier use of bardic inspiration.

I really don't think any of the 2024 PHB bard subclasses is a bad choice depending on what the player is looking for.

Valor bards AC 17-19 generally depending on wealth to buy armor.

 

[Ashrym]

Valor bards AC 17-19 generally depending on wealth to buy armor.

Yes, and dance bards generally get 16-20 as they spend ASI's. They'll typically have 18 AC by 8th level. It evens up after a slower start.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, and dance bards generally get 16-20 as they spend ASI's. They'll typically have 18 AC by 8th level. It evens up after a slower start.

On paper. Magical armor and shields though.

AC 17 or 18 by 8. Gonna take s while. And Valor can debuff.

Anyway Valor should be done tomorrow

 

[Ashrym]

On paper. Magical armor and shields though.

AC 17 or 18 by 8. Gonna take s while. And Valor can debuff.

Anyway Valor should be done tomorrow

Dance can increase AC with magic items too. It takes more magic items stacked up on valor to win AC.

Valor doesn't debuff. It adds 2 options that buff AC or damage for 1 other person.

6th level is still good for everyone. ;-)

 

[Zardnaar]

Dance can increase AC with magic items too. It takes more magic items stacked up on valor to win AC.

Valor doesn't debuff. It adds 2 options that buff AC or damage for 1 other person.

6th level is still good for everyone. ;-)

More items and more common items buff Valor Bard.

 

[mellored]

It's relative to other bards who also get good abilities at 3. Poor, Great and situational abilities add up to a C imho. Opportunity cost Dance bard vs any of the others.

I'd say the extra punching and AC is better than Cutting Words. Since Cutting Word uses dice.

I.e.
Lore can affect 3 rolls and +1 to skills.
Dance can affect 3 rolls, has +2 AC, and can make 3 punches.

Not as good as Glamor 3, and probably on par with with Valor 3.

And Dance 6 is really good.