D&D 5E Command and spike growth

[Ancalagon]

It is impossible to have a ruleset without rulings - a ruleset where everything is covered would be very, very ponderous and heavy.

 

[plisnithus8]

It is impossible to have a ruleset without rulings - a ruleset where everything is covered would be very, very ponderous and heavy.

Sure, but to say that the rule/spell “If- A-Then-B” actually means “If-A-Then-B-Unless-Target-Doesn’t-Feel-Like-It” (as in the barbarian shrugging off damage example above) seems like a very weak system for how magic works. Unless we’re talking about wild magic, most 5e magic seems to have very coded language or formulas.

 

[Ancalagon]

Sure, but to say that the rule/spell “If- A-Then-B” actually means “If-A-Then-B-Unless-Target-Doesn’t-Feel-Like-It” (as in the barbarian shrugging off damage example above) seems like a very weak system for how magic works. Unless we’re talking about wild magic, most 5e magic seems to have very coded language or formulas.

the example seems... contrived to be honest. The barbarian could withdraw to avoid an attack of opportunity.

 

[plisnithus8]

the example seems... contrived to be honest. The barbarian could withdraw to avoid an attack of opportunity.

The example wasn’t mine, but honestly everything in D&D is contrived, especially things relating to magic.

The original question is what happens on the Command:Fee — “The target spends its turn moving away from you by the fastest available means.”
The fastest means is using its turn to Dash/Move. Disengaging (withdraw) would not be the fastest means so the barbarian could suffer OA.

 

[Ancalagon]

The example wasn’t mine, but honestly everything in D&D is contrived, especially things relating to magic.

The original question is what happens on the Command:Fee — “The target spends its turn moving away from you by the fastest available means.”
The fastest means is using its turn to Dash/Move. Disengaging (withdraw) would not be the fastest means so the barbarian could suffer OA.

If the fastest way to flee was to jump down a cliff... the target of the spell wouldn't do that, because it's harmful. Unless they have featherfall, in which case they would! So withdrawing, IMO is reasonable.

 

[plisnithus8]

If the fastest way to flee was to jump down a cliff... the target of the spell wouldn't do that, because it's harmful. Unless they have featherfall, in which case they would! So withdrawing, IMO is reasonable.

Flee doesn’t say move away as fast as you can without causing harm to yourself.
Flee says move away as fast as you can; If (you believe) doing so will directly cause you harm, the spell does not work.

Jeremy Crawford tweeted that OA are indirect because they potentially may not cause harm (no reaction, choose not to, etc.). So if the Command spell causes a creature to flee, they must dash/move* so they cannot disengage and thus could suffer OA.

My point is that the threat of an enemy making an OA (and couldn’t the target know if an enemy had a reaction available?) seems just as harmful as running through Spike Growth, if we are considering the “harm” of the spell to be determined by the target.

*By “the fastest means available,” would that mean a rogue must Dash/Dash/Move?

 

[MarkB]

If the fastest way to flee was to jump down a cliff... the target of the spell wouldn't do that, because it's harmful. Unless they have featherfall, in which case they would! So withdrawing, IMO is reasonable.

Falling is certain to hurt you. Risking opportunity attacks is not.

 

[lingual]

The difference here is the OA may be harmful - but it's neither inevitable nor automatic. Any OA might miss, anyone in position to take an OA might already be distracted (have not reaction left), any number of things that make the OA neither inevitable nor automatic - unlike jumping off a cliff or swimming in lava.

Can they disengage and then move away?

 

[Ancalagon]

.My point is that the threat of an enemy making an OA (and couldn’t the target know if an enemy had a reaction available?) seems just as harmful as running through Spike Growth, i

Spike growth has 20 foot radius. Depending on the placement, you are looking at up to 8 squares, or 16d4 damage. That's 40 damage on average, with no save. That's worse than jumping off a 100 foot cliff.

 

[plisnithus8]

Spike growth has 20 foot radius. Depending on the placement, you are looking at up to 8 squares, or 16d4 damage. That's 40 damage on average, with no save. That's worse than jumping off a 100 foot cliff.

The amount of damage doesn’t matter. If the target perceives any direct harm, the spell fails: 5’ of spike growth or a 10’ cliff.

But a dozen hostile bugbears plus a couple of trolls they have flee past with potential OA, surely no direct harm can come from that.