D&D Movie/TV D&D: Honor Among Thieves Open Discussion [Full Spoilers]

[Mad_Jack]

The wife isn't very fleshed out but also isn't just a plot point - her death does change Edgin, but like... death of loved ones does that.

Yeah, that's about what I figured, lol. Given the things I've read about the film and the people making it, I really didn't think they'd drop the ball so hard on some minor aspect of it.

 

[pogre]

Just got back from the theater and I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed the movie.

I was particularly pleased that the script writers did not shackle themselves too closely to the rules or lore.

I don't go to the movies much, but the D&D movie had more verisimilitude than the Fast & Furious preview.

 

[pukunui]

Interestingly they specifically called him out as not-immortal in the movie, but rather slow-aging because the undead assassin guy was like "Yo Xenk you look older than when I last saw you!". The description in the DDB bit for him also calls him out as slow-aging.

Good point. Slow-aging it is then.

Yeah the whole thing ran much more like Dungeon World than D&D 5E, that's for sure. And honestly I don't think D&D would be harmed much by loosening up a lot of that stuff.

Interesting. I might just have to look more into Dungeon World, as I didn't know it was more loose with resource management stuff.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I found an article (definitely click-bait-y) that basically called out the film for using a "problematic trope", which turned out to be them claiming that the only "characterization" Edgin's wife had was that she was dead and only mentioned to justify the plot. Which supposedly doesn't do the film any favors.
Now, obviously, the movie isn't going to spend a huge amount of time fleshing out a secondary character who's already dead when the story starts (I haven't seen it yet, so I'm assuming they don't devote a flashback to her death?), but I am curious... Is the wife really just a cardboard cut-out with a "Hi, my name is...<Plot Point>" sticker on her?

Not really, although the home lives of all the characters are weirdly idyllic. All of their communities look like something from Disneyland.

 

[Maxperson]

?

Must be an American thing.

Yep! We just loooooove to dilute the word hero by calling people heroes for every little thing.

 

[pukunui]

Did I just miss it or did the scene from the trailers where Holga and Edgin talk about discussing something over a drink get cut from the film?

 

[Hussar]

Yeah, that's about what I figured, lol. Given the things I've read about the film and the people making it, I really didn't think they'd drop the ball so hard on some minor aspect of it.

Not really. She appears repeatedly in flashbacks. Sure, she's not an adventurer, but, fair enough. Not every adventurer has to be married to another adventurer. The fact that Edgin takes personal responsibility for her death is a major character moment. Look, I'm all for criticism and all that, but, I'm honestly, really, not seeing it. Like, at all.

 

[Iosue]

Yeah, that's about what I figured, lol. Given the things I've read about the film and the people making it, I really didn't think they'd drop the ball so hard on some minor aspect of it.

Context matters. If Edgin went on this adventure with a party of all male adventurers, and the only other female characters, if any, were his damsel-in-distress daughter and a thinly motivated villain, then sure the movie could and should be called out for a lack of female characters with real characterization. But when you have two other prominent female characters, neither of whom are defined by their relationship with Edgin, then I think you’re allowed to have a tragic backstory wife.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Did I just miss it or did the scene from the trailers where Holga and Edgin talk about discussing something over a drink get cut from the film?

We demand an 18 hour directors cut!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Did I just miss it or did the scene from the trailers where Holga and Edgin talk about discussing something over a drink get cut from the film?

Thought so too...

 

[Iosue]

Did I just miss it or did the scene from the trailers where Holga and Edgin talk about discussing something over a drink get cut from the film?

It should have come at the end of the scene at Edgin’s house, but the scene cut off earlier. Also, Edgin never makes the comment about “sharper stairs somewhere else.”

 

[Henadic Theologian]

There were a lot of high level spells in this film. I don't think anyone is Tier 1 other than maybe Edgin, who is either a rogue with a lute or a straight-up commoner.

He's a Mastermind Rogue with the Entertainer background not a Bard, he's reasonable mid level to high when you realize that, calling himself a bard is just part of his con. treat his reinforced lute as a light mace for sneak attack. Once you do that he doesn't seem so low level anymore.

 

[humble minion]

Did I just miss it or did the scene from the trailers where Holga and Edgin talk about discussing something over a drink get cut from the film?

So did the line about 'the greatest evil the world has ever seen'.

For which I'm thankful. It was a terrible line, badly delivered, and not even true in the context of the Realms.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Memo to WotC - Are you really sure you want to take away tiny wildshapes from Druids till Tier III? Doric's escape is even more fun when it's a Tier I Druid doing it

I cheered during that section for a different reason. I changed wildshape in my version of D&D, so it costs a spell slot and the creature you wildshape in depends on the spell slot.

I was worried my players might not like the nerf, but now I can point to that scene as something cool that even a low level druid could do.

 

[FrozenNorth]

That could be fun! It would seem that his being marked by Szass Tam has made him immortal (or at least extremely long-lived, since he certainly doesn't look like he's more than 100 years old).

I heard someone suggest that he’s an Ancients paladin, and so stopped aging.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I liked the movie. Right level of action versus comedy, the actors would good, it wasn’t too cliche-ridden, and I loved the crazy plans the characters came up with on the fly.

 

[OB1]

Or maybe she just had that epic boon that gives you an extra 9th level spell slot.

Sofina's stat block on D&D Beyond has her (as well as the other characters) built in the new MotM style for NPCs. So as part of her spell casting ability, she can cast Time Stop once a day (as well as Evard's Tenticles and Finger of Death), as well as Bestow Curse, Bigby's Hand, Otiluke's Sphere and a few others twice per day, then has another ability that gives her a Meteor Storm lite ability called Swarm of Meteors once per day (at about half the damage of a regular Meteor Storm). Weirdly, her stat block didn't have Animate Object (assuming that was what she did for the dragon statue) or misty step (she does have Dimension Door, but her teleportation read more misty step to me). That said, MotM style casters can swap out the listed spells for others of the same level, so I'm assuming that's the explanation.

Doric's NPC block get's 5 wild shape uses per day (rather than the short rest ability). Though in the One playtest, Druids get a 13th level ability to switch in and out of forms during a single wild shape time period (the one Druid change that the playtest got right, though it should be 11th level instead of 13). Her stat block also calls out that she uses her own HP in wild shape form, though it appeared in the film that it was the 5e rule of the beasts having their own HP and that she reverts back when the beast HP are taken to 0.

And while they weren't explicit with it, I think Edjin may have subtle cast a few bard spells in the film (Friends, Charm Person, Command, Inspiring Words). Gonna look more closely for signs of that when I see it again today!

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Oh makes more sense if it's Elminister if it's just how Simon imagines him, because I don't buy Elminister as remotely that stern. Dude wasn't dropping any jokes or being sarcastic or ironic or needlessly flip or distracted - he was downright combative! At the time I thought he just called him "Aumar" though and that the seal was because he was a descendant.

Also an Ed Greenwood type could definitely be Simon's great-great-grandfather, I'm not sure why you're suggesting he couldn't? One of Justice Smith's parents is white, the other black. But we don't know what this FR's Elminster looks like (and he may well have had multiple forms anyway - didn't Elminister spend some time as female even?), and one suspects Simon's Elminster is probably subconsciously modelled on his father given his self-worth issues (just going on typical male psychology here of course), though equally it could be from a painting he's seen or something.

Interestingly they specifically called him out as not-immortal in the movie, but rather slow-aging because the undead assassin guy was like "Yo Xenk you look older than when I last saw you!". The description in the DDB bit for him also calls him out as slow-aging.

I'm with those of the opinion that Xenk is an Aasimar, he's ability to resist the necrotic damage of the Becoking Death, his ability to see in the dark, his slower aging, etc... even his Mulan race (much more likely to give birth to Aasimar), all just points to Aasimar.

As for Black Elminister, it clear Simon was extraploiting his appeared based on his own appearance, because Simon has never met Elminster and despite El's trappings, the figure he faced was really Simon himself, but older.

So don't expect the same actor to play Elminster in any sequels, because it was Simon the whole time. I mean Simon mistakenly thinks Elminster is dead, because he's never met him.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Not really. She appears repeatedly in flashbacks. Sure, she's not an adventurer, but, fair enough. Not every adventurer has to be married to another adventurer. The fact that Edgin takes personal responsibility for her death is a major character moment. Look, I'm all for criticism and all that, but, I'm honestly, really, not seeing it. Like, at all.

I agree—actually I thought it was powerful enough—especially when they made the hard decision near the end of the film. They made economical use of her story. With the flashbacks and Pine’s motivation I did not feel like they neglected her.

Every minute of domestic bliss they showed would be at the cost of adventuring time…so if this is a D&D movie…

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Yep! We just loooooove to dilute the word hero by calling people heroes for every little thing.

People forget this was shot during the Pandemic, no one knew if folks would ever return to Threaters again, so I give this a free pass.