D&D Movie/TV D&D: Honor Among Thieves Open Discussion [Full Spoilers]

[Ruin Explorer]

Just got back from it here.

It's like a solid 7.5/10 movie. At times it was absolutely ROLLING and working really well, particularly when it was doing comedy - the graveyard scene and the Paladin being an incredible twerp were working really well. That walking away scene got big laughs in my cinema. Rege-Jean is a really amazing comedy straightman. The only joke that really didn't land in my cinema was the intellect devourer one (I think it could have done with being slightly longer and maybe having the devourers sniff at everyone except Edgin).

At other times it didn't work nearly as well - the vast majority of the combat scenes didn't work well - the directors clearly don't have a of experience directing combat, and don't have a flair for making it look cool.

Other action scenes did work well - just not the combat, with the possible exception of the final fight, which was a bit better if rather confused because it was so rapid. I could tell they were losing the audience a bit in a lot of them though. Like the wagon scene or running away from Themberchaud worked great.

The emotional scenes would have worked better if they were integrated better. Unfortunately, whilst they were well-constructed and effective, they didn't blend well with the rest of the movie. Also the dragonfly/damselfly thing just being symbolic and not paying off to anything was a bit strange. But maybe I'm not deep enough on Realms lore and there was additional symbolism I didn't get or something.

All the performances were fun, and I felt like Rodriguez was very into her character lol. Chris Pine is of course incapable of dropping character, always delivers. There was way more Hugh Grant than I expected and he seemed to be having a good time, which slightly surprised me.

The Red Wizards were great - and some really nice magic effects too.

I think overall it was kind of slightly less than the sum of its parts because it fit together kind of poorly, and some of the jokes were bit too on-the-nose (like the D&D cartoon ref).

I definitely enjoyed it a ton though and will re-watch on TV or if friends want to go and see it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The didn't help the paladin fight, just stood there?

He literally told them to, though I was surprised they followed his instructions.

The attunement scenes. Really, this should 100% be part of the rules somehow. I'm totally using this in a future campaign.

Yeah that was surprising and I liked it a lot. Also the ancestor had exactly the amount of attitude I might expect from a line of sorcerers descended from Elminster (who probably has like, thousands of descendants, the randy bastard!).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Oh and also - world's most surprising Bradley Cooper cameo! I was like "WTH this Halfling is Bradley Cooper?! Am I seeing things?". I know he loves a good cameo or voice role, but I was still really surprised. It was kind of weird that they made him and the other halfling small all over rather than, I dunno, mapping them onto a differently proportioned 3D body, but I suppose budgets have limits. Also I presume the dark-skinned black-and-grey-haired small lady was a gnome, rather than a halfling, just due to her vibe. Still laughing at the way she shrieked "Jarnathan!" at the end clearly implying it was Jarnathan's fault for this happening again!

Also Jarnathan omg that poor Aarakocra - that was perfect use of animatronics. I love him.

Oh and the Tabaxi omg I forgot them. So dumb-looking. So cute. I honestly think Tabaxi should look more like that though.

 

[Zaukrie]

Oh and also - world's most surprising Bradley Cooper cameo! I was like "WTH this Halfling is Bradley Cooper?! Am I seeing things?". I know he loves a good cameo or voice role, but I was still really surprised. It was kind of weird that they made him and the other halfling small all over rather than, I dunno, mapping them onto a differently proportioned 3D body, but I suppose budgets have limits. Also I presume the dark-skinned black-and-grey-haired small lady was a gnome, rather than a halfling, just due to her vibe. Still laughing at the way she shrieked "Jarnathan!" at the end clearly implying it was Jarnathan's fault for this happening again!

Also Jarnathan omg that poor Aarakocra - that was perfect use of animatronics. I love him.

Oh and the Tabaxi omg I forgot them. So dumb-looking. So cute. I honestly think Tabaxi should look more like that though.

Ya, that cameo was shocking!

Didn't love the Tabaxi all that much....it was fine.

 

[Clint_L]

Just saw it. Super fun! Very episodic - chase this Macguffin, then that. Not exactly high art, but more jokes hit than missed, and the cast had good chemistry. Loved seeing the various D&D elements, with my favourite being Maximillian's Earthen Grasp vs. what I assume was a necrotic version of Bigby's Hand.

Downs:
The villains were fine, but standard action movie villain fare - evil because reasons. Hugh Grant's Forge was a bit more interesting, though his motivation only amounted to "grifter gotta grift."

A few of the make-up choices were kind of silly - the Aarakroa dude and Tabaxi were a bit janky, though the practical effects were still fun. Also, Halfings just looked like tiny humans, which I found disconcerting.

The emotional stakes weren't that well developed, so that Edgin's sacrifice at the end seemed like the obvious choice rather than a true dilemma.

Ups:
Themberchaud. This scene was fantastic and I need a miniature version of him for my collection.

Found family theme: kind of a cliché in action films these days, but still done well, especially between Holga and Edgin.

Bradley Cooper as Holga's ex was a delightful cameo.

The action was very well staged so that I almost always knew what was happening.

The wackiness of their plans reminded me of a D&D game. A lot. I could almost see the failed rolls happening.

That shapeshifting escape scene! If WotC don't figure out a way to let players do that, they are dropping the ball. Also, I loved the Owlbear (even though it's last scene was directly lifted from Hulk in The Avengers - okay, maybe we'll be generous and call it an homage).

The sets did a great job of depicting a large, diverse world.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Saw it with my girls yesterday. Got a very big thumbs up from one. A more meh from the other but just not her bag.

Two big thumbs up from me. Tons of fun. Well done. Granted here in Japan there has been zero marketing. Heck the other theatre it was showing at just assumed it was a kids movie and is only showing the dubbed version.

But yeah. Hey nailed this pretty well.

I saw a tweet of D&D ads in Shinjuku, Themberchaud smashing through the side of a building in a cool 3d effect.

They are also putting the D&D books in the gift shop.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I got the impression Holga (Michelle Rodriguez) has a fetish for halflings. Besides her last halfling lover (a surprise cameo by Bradley Cooper) there was a shot of her looking at another halfling man near the end of the movie.

Speaking of cameos I heard some of the Critical Role cast were supposed to cameo but I didn't see them. Did anyone spot them?

Holga's relationship with Edgin's daughter Kira reminded me a bit of Ripley and Newt in Aliens. In both cases, the biological mother has been murdered and she becomes a surrogate mother to the girl. The characters are caught in a fantastical and dangerous situation.

Rege-Jean Page said if this was a serious fantasy film his character probably would have been the protagonist but in this action comedy/heist he was just a side character. It's almost as though Xenk was dropped into the wrong film which he thought was hysterical. The creators said his character was supposed to represent the D&D player who takes the game too seriously and done a ton of character optimization.

They also said Edgin (Chris Pine) was supposed to be the casual D&D player who didn't bother to learn the rules (lol).

 

[J-H]

It's definitely an ensemble piece based around a group going on an adventure. A movie like this lives or dies on the characters, and they executed successfully.

General Thoughts
SO many "D&D player crazy" plans.
There were several moments where I went "Ok, that's the DM escalating the situation to keep it interesting." Coincidences aren't, and that's OK for a "D&D not real life" movie.
The fight scenes were okay, with the final one being pretty good.
There were a few things skipped over entirely, like how the salt water fire thing suddenly got them out and then they're sitting around a fire in basically the next scene... but really, all the travel stuff is skippable in D&D and in stories, unless it's a story about the traveling like LOTR.
Good jokes throughout, found it funny.
There were a few curse words, but I'm not sure why it was PG-13 instead of PG. There was no bloody violence, and even the scary-ish stuff wasn't very bad.
The Harper lore was really light, and I don't think they work quite like that.
Not enough knowledge of Thay to speak to the lore accuracy of that, but it at least felt like it mostly fit.

Not many magic items. The main spellcasters used some pretty distinctive spells, and I really like their take on Time Stop. The swordfighting-folks (green and gold), I think were both paladins despite their titles based on how they were equally matched. I initially thought Green Flame Blade but I think it's more of a generic magic effect.

The arena was great. Could totally see that, and a lot of other stuff in the movie, being used by a DM, or being things a DM would want to use.

Amusing rendition of Speak With Dead. Very good.

Characters
Chris Pine's character - Edwin, Elwin, Ed-something? - was the weakest link. He was the party mascot but never really contributed much besides bringing the group together. They say he's a bard, but he could have been a 3rd or 5th level rogue and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. No magic, no special knowledge, etc. In fact, I lean towards rogue-disguised-as-bard because most of the times when he hits an enemy, it's with a sneak attack to the back with his club-lute. Nice story with family, etc.

Doric - druid - The character was not a druid per D&D lore with a deep connection to nature and a dislike of civilization and people. The character was a stereotypical female D&D druid player. A number of her mannerisms and the ways she spoke seemed like things that a 20-something woman playing a druid in a game I ran for a while would say. This isn't a criticism - it worked pretty well.
The emerald elf coalition thing was okay-ish. I think I missed the pointy ears on a lot of them, though. Could've been human and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Simon - wild magic sorcerer - was the comedy relief. Too thirsty and awkward, and I think he's supposed to be 30-something at least (half elf) but acts like a young 20-something at most. Alternatively, he's a 15 year old playing a sorcerer while having a crush on the girl sitting next to him but he doesn't know how to talk to her yet or who he is most of the time.

Barbarian - already forgot her name - was what she was. She mostly fought mooks who weren't a threat, and who missed so much that she didn't miss her armor while throwing them around. I don't know what the stuff is with her only liking halflings and I think a gnome at the end, but that gets a small amount of screen time so I think it's mostly there for laughs / twist value, and doesn't need a scientific analysis. She mentioned something about Elks so I think she's Uthgardt.

Zinc the Paladin was played straight, very well done. Enjoyable, didn't overstay his welcome, and you know exactly what to expect from him. Making Chris Pine swear to share the gold was good.

Monsters:
Sophia - evil wizard - was decent, except her accuracy with Meteor Storm is terrible.
Very nice interpretation of a Displacer Beast.
I don't think you can escape from a Gelatinous Cube by shrinking, but it worked. The cube was stationary, though.
Dealing with a wizard by grappling her and then pounding her repeatedly about the head is, indeed, the correct solution.

I'm sure someone's done a comprehensive list of the spells used, so no need to recapitulate that. There was one moment that looked like Magic Missile, but they missed, so it must've been something else.

 

[Ogre Mage]

Doric - druid - The character was not a druid per D&D lore with a deep connection to nature and a dislike of civilization and people. The character was a stereotypical female D&D druid player. A number of her mannerisms and the ways she spoke seemed like things that a 20-something woman playing a druid in a game I ran for a while would say. This isn't a criticism - it worked pretty well.

The two Johns (Goldstein and Daley) said Xenk represented the too serious character optimizer and Edgin represented the casual player who didn't learn the game rules. Perhaps your description was the D&D player they had in mind when they created Doric.

I think Holga is supposed to be the D&D player who just wants to kick in the door and kill monsters.

 

[M_Natas]

I saw the film Wednesday, and also really enjoyed it! I will probably see it again in the theatres at least once.

I agree Doric didn't get much character development in the film, but she was a badass, had some great lines . . . and I can understand why Simon is smitten with her! If you read the prequel novel "Druid's Call", it's all about Doric and her story before she meets up with the party . . . but, while I do think the novel is good and enhances the film, it's not an excuse for the lack of Doric's characterization in the film.

Doric itself was fine. In an ensemble can't not everybody itself can get the same amount of detail.
But the movie continued the same problem I had with Druid's Call. The main threat to her elven home is not really explained. In the novel it was unresolved which made the book incomplete (which I didn't like). While it was resolved in the movie, it didn't get anymore detail. Maybe it was explained in passing ans I have missed it, but why and who are the people lodging the forest? Like this whole part needed another two minutes to just get cleared up. Maybe another one of this fu Flashbacks done right ... (also the Druid's Call was a good young adult novel, but the Druid School part was so shallow and the learning of magic so ... boring and undetailed... it is sad).
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But I have to say, the tie in novels enhance the movie experience. Like ... in Star Trek 2009, the tie in comic was necessary to understand the villian and have him make sense, making Star Trek 2009 a bad movie, here the Tie In Novels are not necessary to understand the plot, but if you read them, the movie will become better. It's like having the right wine with a good meal. An improvement. That's done right.
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All in all, Honor Among Thieves is the perfect representation of a d&d campaign on the big screen. As a D&D movie it is a Nat 20, as a conventional fantasy movie maybe a 17/20. Because it Breaks the Hollywood Story formula and if the would have been more Conservative with the story structure it would have ceased to be a D&D movie and just become a generic gantasy movie.