D&D Movie/TV D&D: Honor Among Thieves Open Discussion [Full Spoilers]

I found an article (definitely click-bait-y) that basically called out the film for using a "problematic trope", which turned out to be them claiming that the only "characterization" Edgin's wife had was that she was dead and only mentioned to justify the plot. Which supposedly doesn't do the film any favors.
Now, obviously, the movie isn't going to spend a huge amount of time fleshing out a secondary character who's already dead when the story starts (I haven't seen it yet, so I'm assuming they don't devote a flashback to her death?), but I am curious... Is the wife really just a cardboard cut-out with a "Hi, my name is...<Plot Point>" sticker on her?
There's been a trend recently where clickbait articles and people online utterly desperate for clout like to try and call out anything negative that happens involving a female characters as "problematic" and "fridging" and so on. Another recent example was a female character in a TV show dying a wildly heroic death of a type normally associated with male characters in macho war movies, and a bunch of desperate idiots tried to claim it was "fridging" (including at least one journalist), when if that's fridging, just about every war movie in history has "fridged" a male character. Given it's CBR, you can safely ignore it. The wife isn't very fleshed out but also isn't just a plot point - her death does change Edgin, but like... death of loved ones does that.

Also, the Lost Lenore trope is not a particularly problematic trope - despite having a female trope-namer it's absolutely used in stories about both genders (and I daresay will be or has been with non-binary characters too - probably has been) - Kyle Reese in T2 is one of the most obvious male examples. Plus they had to reach extremely hard to find that trope - I guarantee it - they probably were trying to claim fridging, realized they couldn't make it fit and searched around desperately for a trope that might, before hitting on that.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
And she's a Cheater McCheaterface. Meteor Swarm and Time Stop in the same 5e fight. with only 1 slot!
Well if the Red Wizard Prestige Class from 3.5 is any indicator....why yes the red wizards are absolute cheaters.

Their whole claim to fame is that they can give spell slots into a generic "pool" that any other red wizard can draw from. So on any given day, one red wizard can have many more spell slots than normal. So having 2 9th....perfectly in line with that.
 

pukunui

Legend
Well if the Red Wizard Prestige Class from 3.5 is any indicator....why yes the red wizards are absolute cheaters.

Their whole claim to fame is that they can give spell slots into a generic "pool" that any other red wizard can draw from. So on any given day, one red wizard can have many more spell slots than normal. So having 2 9th....perfectly in line with that.
Or maybe she just had that epic boon that gives you an extra 9th level spell slot.
 

Plot-adjacent question:

Is anyone else wondering if Simon’s “token-based casting” might be something they’re planning to playtest as a way of making sorcerers more distinct from wizards in the next PHB?

I ask because, with the changes to magic in 5e, the two classes just aren’t as distinct as they were back when the Sorcerer was introduced. And it would fit with some of the modifications we’ve seen to the Bard and other classes.
If anything I feel like making sorcerers token-based would make them more like wizards, in that the magic comes from outside. But he is an arcane bloodline sorcerer so that might work for that subclass.
 



pukunui

Legend
Overall I really liked this film! Hit all the right notes for me. Yeah, there were some things I could nitpick about, but I feel like it got more right than it got wrong.

And we need more cockatrice fighting over rusty plates.
I missed the cockatrices but did see the (miniature) rust monsters fighting over something on a roof beam while Edgin and Holga were being led down into Castle Never's dungeon.

Also, besides the D&D cartoon party in the maze, it seemed there was another party as well (there was a dwarf with a Battle Axe I thought might be Bruenor!?) but wondering if anyone else might have caught anything that would tie it in to other FR lore.
Yeah, there was a third group, but I don’t think they were known characters like the cartoon characters were. They were just some randos there to die. (The woman did look a little bit like Jennifer Lawrence to me but I doubt it was her.)

Memo to WotC - Are you really sure you want to take away tiny wildshapes from Druids till Tier III? Doric's escape is even more fun when it's a Tier I Druid doing it
On a related note, I feel like that scene also highlights the relative stinginess of the whole “resource management” aspect of D&D as a game. It sucks that a druid can't wildshape more than twice without needing to rest for an hour until they hit 20th level.

The attunement scenes. Really, this should 100% be part of the rules somehow. I'm totally using this in a future campaign.
Same. I’ve long wished that the attunement rules had more meat on their bones and weren’t such a box-checking exercise. (Same with identifying magic items.)

Absolutely! Themberchaud was both ridiculous and badass at the same time—it defies all dragon tropes.

Xenk: "He must have found a new den."
Edgin: "Did he eat the last one?"
I guess Thembie got wise to his duergar minders’ plans for him (viz. Out of the Abyss) and managed to escape from Gracklstugh.

Yeah that was surprising and I liked it a lot. Also the ancestor had exactly the amount of attitude I might expect from a line of sorcerers descended from Elminster (who probably has like, thousands of descendants, the randy bastard!).
That was meant to be Elminster himself (or, rather, Simon’s subconscious projection of him). They even included Elminster’s personal arcane sigil on his brooch. They just changed his appearance from looking like Gandalf/Ed Greenwood to looking like someone who could actually be Simon’s great-great-grandfather. (I appreciated the filmmakers' attention to detail, even if they did take a few liberties here and there.)

I got the impression Holga (Michelle Rodriguez) has a fetish for halflings. Besides her last halfling lover (a surprise cameo by Bradley Cooper) there was a shot of her looking at another halfling man near the end of the movie.
Kinda puts a different spin on the whole giantess fetish thing.

The emerald elf coalition thing was okay-ish. I think I missed the pointy ears on a lot of them, though. Could've been human and it wouldn't have made a difference.
I feel like they misrepresented the Emerald Enclave. They made it seem like it was just a group of elves living in the forest rather than a world-spanning organisation of eco-warriors.

She mentioned something about Elks so I think she's Uthgardt.
Yes. It’s not made clear in the film, but it’s been established elsewhere that she’s Uthgardt.

I don't think you can escape from a Gelatinous Cube by shrinking, but it worked. The cube was stationary, though.
Yeah, that was a fun bit of creative licence. I like how they made a point of showing Doric poking her finger out before wildshaping in order to leave herself an exit hole. It was accurate to have the ones who got out reach back in and pull the others out, though.

Could be fun to have Xenk as the thru line, just having him come in and be a badass and then peace out before the final act.
That could be fun! It would seem that his being marked by Szass Tam has made him immortal (or at least extremely long-lived, since he certainly doesn't look like he's more than 100 years old).
 
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That was meant to be Elminster himself (or, rather, Simon’s subconscious projection of him). They even included Elminster’s personal arcane sigil on his brooch. They just changed his appearance from looking like Gandalf/Ed Greenwood to looking like someone who could actually be Simon’s great-great-grandfather. (I appreciated the filmmakers' attention to detail, even if they did take a few liberties here and there.)
Oh makes more sense if it's Elminister if it's just how Simon imagines him, because I don't buy Elminister as remotely that stern. Dude wasn't dropping any jokes or being sarcastic or ironic or needlessly flip or distracted - he was downright combative! At the time I thought he just called him "Aumar" though and that the seal was because he was a descendant.

Also an Ed Greenwood type could definitely be Simon's great-great-grandfather, I'm not sure why you're suggesting he couldn't? One of Justice Smith's parents is white, the other black. But we don't know what this FR's Elminster looks like (and he may well have had multiple forms anyway - didn't Elminister spend some time as female even?), and one suspects Simon's Elminster is probably subconsciously modelled on his father given his self-worth issues (just going on typical male psychology here of course), though equally it could be from a painting he's seen or something.
That could be fun! It would seem that his being marked by Szass Tam has made him immortal (or at least extremely long-lived, since he certainly doesn't look like he's more than 100 years old).
Interestingly they specifically called him out as not-immortal in the movie, but rather slow-aging because the undead assassin guy was like "Yo Xenk you look older than when I last saw you!". The description in the DDB bit for him also calls him out as slow-aging.
 
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On a related note, I feel like that scene also highlights the relative stinginess of the whole “resource management” aspect of D&D as a game. It sucks that a druid can't wildshape more than twice without needing to rest for an hour until they hit 20th level.
Yeah the whole thing ran much more like Dungeon World than D&D 5E, that's for sure. And honestly I don't think D&D would be harmed much by loosening up a lot of that stuff.
 

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