D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[Maxperson]

But then you come up against the vigilance problem. People are remarkably bad at maintaining preparedness for rare events.

Like, in that decade between attacks, someone will realize that have a ton of bows that aren't being used except for target practice. They'll realize that they can maintain practice with, say, half those bows. And when one of those years is lean, and the king has a war coming on, selling off the bows starts looking like a good option. "We'll still have years to rebuild the stockpile!" they'll say. And "Dragons almost never attack," they'll note. And then the bows aren't there when the dragon does attack.

And, there's the 'over-specialized plan" issue. They do all this preparation for dragons, and have no effective defenses when the bulettes come...

Yeah. Monsters tend to(or at least should) wreck towns and villages. If monsters were as common as the rate of PC encounters imply, much of the civilized world would have been destroyed many decades ago. That's why I say that there must be some fate or destiny throwing creatures in the path of the party.

 

[Maxperson]

Again, it's not a bounded accuracy issue at all. The only thing saving the AD&D dragon was unlimited fear aura, not his 88 hit points.

But it's not just dragons. They bounded too tightly across the board. +10 as the class cap would have been perfect.

And the AD&D dragon breath weapon killed most PCs on a failed save.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I mean, realistically, a village is unlikely to be able to beat a dragon. It’s technically possible but the odds are so long that if they succeed it’s a miracle.

The more likely “1,000 commoners vs a dragon” scenario is the count conscripts several hundred farmers, gives them all shortbows and makes flying very risky while he and his elite companions do the real work of killing it to death at closer range. The count only needs to be 5th level or so for this to work most of the time.

Which is why DnD style adventures work better on the edges of society - in the heart of the empire, these things are handled by the Army.

 

[Greg Benage]

But it's not just dragons. They bounded too tightly across the board. +10 as the class cap would have been perfect.

That may be -- I don't have an opinion. But your claim was that dragons are too weak now because of bounded accuracy. Even with bounded accuracy, they are much more likely to survive your Thousand Peasants in a White Room scenario than an AD&D dragon except for the AD&D dragon's unlimited fear aura.

There was a reason for all those dragon self-defense Dragon articles.

 

[Maxperson]

That may be -- I don't have an opinion. But your claim was that dragons are too weak now because of bounded accuracy. Even with bounded accuracy, they are much more likely to survive your Thousand Peasants in a White Room scenario than an AD&D dragon except for the AD&D dragon's unlimited fear aura.

There was a reason for all those dragon self-defense Dragon articles.

3e did many things right. Increasing dragon power was one of them. I don't like this step back that 5e made with them.

 

[Greg Benage]

3e did many things right. Increasing dragon power was one of them. I don't like this step back that 5e made with them.

Again, this doesn't seem like a bounded accuracy issue. It seems like you think they should have damage reduction, which is perfectly reasonable.

 

[overgeeked]

This isn't the only bounded accuracy issue that has come up, though. It would have been much better had they bounded class bonuses at +10 over 20 levels and then increased armor some more. You'd still have monsters be a threat for longer periods, but you wouldn't have high CR and epic monsters capable of being taken out by peasants.

That doesn’t solve it. Even if the dragon had AC 45 or AC 75 the peasants still hit on a natural 20. Being immune to non-magical weapons, however, would solve the peasants vs dragon problem. Or damage reduction. Or…

 

[Stormonu]

Why are you all buying bows to solve this problem? Get some freakin' ballistas in there.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But RAW, the DM calls for rolls if they decide something is in doubt.

Does anyone ever actually sit through the DM playing a town versus a dragon by himself? Or does the DM just create the scenario of the town in need and then let the players decide how their characters interact with that?



Consistent with what? The NPCs don't need stat blocks. The DM can just say "this dragon decimated this town" and be perfectly within the expectations of play.

Comparing that to ignoring the PCs' stats and abilities is bonkers.

The expectations of play and what the rules allow for are not the same thing, sometimes ridiculously so.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Even something as simple as needing a +1 magical weapon to-hit would be enough.

Nothing has that power anymore. Just resistance. You'd have to houserule it, which i would be and am happy to do.