D&D General DM Says No Powergaming?

[Maxperson]

So, I'm hearing lots of creature need damage reduction?

;-)

That was actually my bad. I saw his post a second time. It was me, not him there.

 

[Greg Benage]

Never mind. That was a bit snarky.

No worries - @Cadence is on it. To answer your snarky question, I can accept your claim that bounded accuracy is a problem in the game design (as executed in 5e), while still insisting that the perceived problems you’ve identified with dragons are not themselves about bounded accuracy.

To gently return the snark, if you want to talk about bounded accuracy, it would be better to use examples that are about bounded accuracy.

 

[Maxperson]

No worries - @Cadence is on it. To answer your snarky question, I can accept your claim that bounded accuracy is a problem in the game design (as executed in 5e), while still insisting that the perceived problems you’ve identified with dragons are not themselves about bounded accuracy.

To gently return the snark, if you want to talk about bounded accuracy, it would be better to use examples that are about bounded accuracy.

I think it could go either way. The answer to bounded accuracy issues is not to make everything immune to non-magic weapons. It could work with the dragons, because of the lore about them being magical and having super hard scales. Normal weapons couldn't hurt Smaug and he was fairly small for a dragon.

 

[Stormonu]

Damage Thresholds for Huge and Gargantuan creatures could probably be used instead of an immunity.

 

[TheSword]

Just my thoughts…
A significant proportion of a villages population are going to be children, or the feeble (elderly, infirm, sick), or non-combatants (folks too scared to fight a dragon who wouldn’t risk dying/think the village should parley with it). It doesn’t take dragon fear to make someone scared of death.

What spaces are these villages going to be occupying where they have clear line of sight to the dragon before it attacks them. How many villages can actually fit in that space.

How are they trained to fire in concert, stand and fight in the face of massive casualties and not accidentally shoot each other (these commoners aren’t trained in longbow use after all are they) so the archers are giving the dragon cover (optional cover rules) and if they miss by 2 or less then the arrow is going into the head of a peasant.

The dragon flies low at the village from one side (the one with the most line of sight blocking terrain) and fires the fields and houses on that side. There are now huge clouds of smoke obscuring line of sight for a big proportion of those archers and the dragon has free reign to pick folks off at will.

If the dragon becomes injured or even at risk. It flies off and rests for the night. How do the villagers get back their dead?

Plus NPCs won’t crit in One D&D so that changes the damage calculations.

There’s no way the village wins. Or even a town.

 

[Zardnaar]

Just my thoughts…
A significant proportion of a villages population are going to be children, or the feeble (elderly, infirm, sick), or non-combatants (folks too scared to fight a dragon who wouldn’t risk dying/think the village should parley with it). It doesn’t take dragon fear to make someone scared of death.

What spaces are these villages going to be occupying where they have clear line of sight to the dragon before it attacks them. How many villages can actually fit in that space.

How are they trained to fire in concert, stand and fight in the face of massive casualties and not accidentally shoot each other (these commoners aren’t trained in longbow use after all are they) so the archers are giving the dragon cover (optional cover rules) and if they miss by 2 or less then the arrow is going into the head of a peasant.

The dragon flies low at the village from one side (the one with the most line of sight blocking terrain) and fires the fields and houses on that side. There are now huge clouds of smoke obscuring line of sight for a big proportion of those archers and the dragon has free reign to pick folks off at will.

If the dragon becomes injured or even at risk. It flies off and rests for the night. How do the villagers get back their dead?

Plus NPCs won’t crit in One D&D so that changes the damage calculations.

There’s no way the village wins. Or even a town.

Dragon attacks at night burns down a few houses and sods off.

Wash rinse repeat.

 

[CreamCloud0]

sorry i think i must've missed a critical post in the discussion, is it the villagers or the dragon who's the one powergaming in this scenario?

 

[FrozenNorth]

It will eventually die, though, unless it runs. There are enough commoners in a large town to do that. Hell, they get to shoot first every time since they are readying actions.

Ah, yes, I forgot. These are commoners whi are spending every moment of every day with their longbows in their hands, readying their actions against a dragon attack.

The dragon wins without doing anything: the villagers all starved to death years ago from being unable to harvest or even feed themselves.

 

[Oofta]

Just my thoughts…
A significant proportion of a villages population are going to be children, or the feeble (elderly, infirm, sick), or non-combatants (folks too scared to fight a dragon who wouldn’t risk dying/think the village should parley with it). It doesn’t take dragon fear to make someone scared of death.

What spaces are these villages going to be occupying where they have clear line of sight to the dragon before it attacks them. How many villages can actually fit in that space.

How are they trained to fire in concert, stand and fight in the face of massive casualties and not accidentally shoot each other (these commoners aren’t trained in longbow use after all are they) so the archers are giving the dragon cover (optional cover rules) and if they miss by 2 or less then the arrow is going into the head of a peasant.

The dragon flies low at the village from one side (the one with the most line of sight blocking terrain) and fires the fields and houses on that side. There are now huge clouds of smoke obscuring line of sight for a big proportion of those archers and the dragon has free reign to pick folks off at will.

If the dragon becomes injured or even at risk. It flies off and rests for the night. How do the villagers get back their dead?

Plus NPCs won’t crit in One D&D so that changes the damage calculations.

There’s no way the village wins. Or even a town.

The village or town won't survive against many different threats. That's why they pay taxes and the lord of the land raises armies. The fact that it's a dragon and not a band of marauders from a foreign land doesn't really make a difference.

 

[FrozenNorth]

It doesn't have to be high CR creatures. A larger group of mooks makes a very good challenge, especially if they are positioned so that AOEs can't catch more than 2 or 3 of them. Anchor the mooks with 2-3 more appropriate threats and watch combats get real heated, real quick. My first PC death this campaign came from (mostly) Bandits. Last session, I almost had another with 2 stone giants and a mass of giant spiders vs 5 level 7 PCs. The player in question had more fun in that combat than he has had in years. This is with no attacking downed PCs, no DM cheese, and no unrealistic behavior from the monsters or PCs. It's just about numbers that tilt action economy away from the players and maps that offer creative combat.

This is a good post, and highlights an interesting point in encounter design: in small parties, throwing a large number of monsters works very well to challenge the group, but as you reach larger party sizes, it can seriously slow down combat (even moreso online where combat is slower than in person).