D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

tetrasodium

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You can change infusions known at level up, and you have more known than you have slots anyway.

In my experience artificers can almost always supply what is needed.

Of course, in a monty haul campaign, when the party have more magic items than they know what to do with, the value is diminished.
Oh I'm quite aware of the at level up, but "whatever other thing the party is lacking" is not even on the same planet as changing infusions "at level up" & artificer has too many areas where every possible strongpoint is limited in every way as if it wasn't so much possible but defacto reeking of design by committee where in the end they took all the things on the limits side of the whiteboard & none of the stuff to bring secondary/tertiary features into the spotlight on the strengths side of the whiteboard
 

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Oh I'm quite aware of the at level up, but "whatever other thing the party is lacking" is not even on the same planet as changing infusions "at level up" & artificer has too many areas where every possible strongpoint is limited in every way as if it wasn't so much possible but defacto reeking of design by committee where in the end they took all the things on the limits side of the whiteboard & none of the stuff to bring secondary/tertiary features into the spotlight on the strengths side of the whiteboard
And some people just have to hate anything new that doesn't do everything better than anything old.
 

You can change infusions known at level up, and you have more known than you have slots anyway.

In my experience artificers can almost always supply what is needed.

Of course, in a monty haul campaign, when the party have more magic items than they know what to do with, the value is diminished.

In such campaigns the Artificer shines seeing as they can attune to up to 6 items (8 if you're an Armorer) at once.
 

Except due to an overly conservative list loaded with filler items and no ability to change infusions known in support of such a solution seeking a problem "whatever other thing the party is lacking" is probably not doable either. If the intent was to let them flexibly fill the needs of "whatever other thing the party is lacking" at a solid but not amazing level that would have been fine too but the limits on infusions are more the sort of limitations you would expect to see if they were limiting a list of very powerful top shelf tems at the levels that they were allowed
How is the list overly conservative? Which items do you believe are just "filler"?
The artificer can adjust to supply something that the party is lacking quite easily: Weapon infusions can be applied to any non-magical weapon so if the GWM fighter only has a magic dagger, the artificer can infuse a greatsword for them instead.
If the fighter later finds a magical greatsword then as Paul pointed out to you, they can just swap their infusion to a utility item, or an AC bonus: whatever the party lacks. If they don't have any unused infusions for something the party don't have or can't use more of, then they do get to change their infusions known at level up.

You can change infusions known at level up, and you have more known than you have slots anyway.

In my experience artificers can almost always supply what is needed.

Of course, in a monty haul campaign, when the party have more magic items than they know what to do with, the value is diminished.
i don't think any campaigns get so monty-haul that an artificer can't find an infusion of something the party lacks.
Also, in a monty haul campaign, the artificer's ability to attune to extra items and use any item, particularly wands and staves, gives an increase in value from that.
 

G

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But Alchemist and Armorer are trap choices.
I have no direct experience with the Armorer, but I have seen an Alchemist in play, and It was fine. The Alchemist was in an 8 person party that included 4 flavors of Paladin and one Arcane Cleric...so I would say the deck was stacked against the PC being a bright shining star with that party composition stepping on their subclass toes.

The player is clever, learned their class abilities, and thought about ways to differentiate themselves and used the artificer class' ability to "retool" on a Long Rest to their advantage.

3-5 Free uses of Lesser Restoration, and one Use of Greater Restoration and Heal, let the other characters able to prepare different spells.

Alchemists and Artillerists deal great damage with their Cantrips.

A Tier 3 Artificer that is able to use any magic items, regardless of restrictions, is impressive. The High Level Artillerist in a game I play in has Efreeti Chain, a Ring of Spell Turning, and a Staff of the Magi, and still has room for other items that require attunement. The Artillerist constantly changes their kit...and can tank in a pinch.
 


G

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Of course, in a monty haul campaign, when the party have more magic items than they know what to do with, the value is diminished
Actually, in a Gygax style campaign, at high levels the Artificer can really shine.
Battle Smiths duel wielding a Vorpal Sword with a Staff of Striking, just because they can..and so forth. Attuning to 5 Legendary Items is nice.
 


tetrasodium

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How is the list overly conservative? Which items do you believe are just "filler"?
Look at the replicate magic item lists. The 2nd & 6th level ones are relatively appropriate and the value of the +1 on a nonmagical weapon is still good because it's not until 5ish that the party is likely to have them. After that however that +1 weapon/armor doesn't improve till 11th & never gets better again wile the +1 and some minor stuff like radiant weapon just never improve to begin with. The higher an artificer goes the more hat replicate magic item needs to pickup the slack for those infusions but instead of doing that it fails at doing so. Look at the level 10 & level 14 replicate magic item lists, yea there are a couple good items but even those wouldn't be out of place if obtained earlier & even some of those are made not useful due to obtaining them too late(ie gauntlets of ogre power). do you really think that a 10th+ level character is needed to keep a quiver of ehlona, uncommon boots of the winterlands, wonderous item brooch of shielding, wonderous cloak of the bat(oops that's actually on the 14 list not 10), wonderous hat of disguise, uncommon helm of telepathy, uncommon medallion of thoughts, uncommon gloves of swiming & climbing, wonderous necklace of adaptation, uncommon periapt of wound closure, uncommon ring of jumping, uncommon ring of mind shielding, or uncommon slippers of spider climbing from being unbalancing to the 2nd or 5th level list of replicate options? do you think there are many strength or int based characters needing or even benefitting from gauntlets of ogre power or headbands of intellect still by level 10 when they become replicatable? It's just a recycled grab bag of a few good items a tier or two too late to stil be meaningful in most cases that is padded out with stocking stuffer neat but not very likely to change much at any level a gm awards them to players

The artificer can adjust to supply something that the party is lacking quite easily: Weapon infusions can be applied to any non-magical weapon so if the GWM fighter only has a magic dagger, the artificer can infuse a greatsword for them instead.
People keep saying that, but the mechanics of artificer don't really support doing that & more importantly it's probably not really needed after level 5 or so in most of wotc's HC adventures.

If the fighter later finds a magical greatsword then as Paul pointed out to you, they can just swap their infusion to a utility item, or an AC bonus: whatever the party lacks. If they don't have any unused infusions for something the party don't have or can't use more of, then they do get to change their infusions known at level up.
No at level up he can do that swap, that's hardly accomplishing
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This whole line is like saying that warlock imited spell slots make sense because they can change spells at level up to cast whatever spells the party needs. The difference is that those warlock spell slots come with a powerful feature in the form of getting the back on a short rest while the powerful feature for the infusions never made it to print.
More importantly the artificer specific infusion items and replicate magic item lists don't fill the slack once +1 is met.
i don't think any campaigns get so monty-haul that an artificer can't find an infusion of something the party lacks.
Also, in a monty haul campaign, the artificer's ability to attune to extra items and use any item, particularly wands and staves, gives an increase in value from that.
I think you might be pretty far off base by suggesting that +1 stuff is what is needed to qualify as "monty haul" +1 weapon & +1 shields are only uncommon. +1 armor is rare sure, but you can't make more than one so it's still absurd to say it's monty haul.
edit
6 Legendary items. 8 if you're an Armorer and those extra ones are in your armor.

Ignoring class and other restrictions.
Those just grow on trees in your games? I could be mistaken, but I don't think there are any legendary items on the artificer infusion lists either...
 

Those just grow on trees in your games? I could be mistaken, but I don't think there are any legendary items on the artificer infusion lists either...

At high levels they do make appearances, but the fact remains in my games by around 10th level, attunement slots are the deciding factor in magic item use, with tough decisions being made already.

DMs with artificers should definitely allow downtime magic item crafting as well.
 

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