Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[dante58701]

I think Buu had the Indissoluble ability.


But then again we are quoting anime as a valid reference source, which someone previously mentioned was unacceptable.

Then again, never did see eye to eye on that concept, so to me...anime is more than acceptable.

Especially since anime, like anything else in fantasy, is total BS anyways. I mean, let's be honest. In the real world you dont get magic, superscience, or divine abilities.

So...we could just say forget D&D altogether, since it isn't real anyways, and move on to more interesting hobbies like playing competitive sports and drinking gaytorade.

Or, we could put on pink frilly dresses and play hopscotch. LOL!!!

Sigh...I keep cracking myself up here...a sense of hunor is necessary these days.

Truth is, were all a bunch of nerds and worrying too much about what is acceptable and what isnt.

All the rules have some flaw or another. But that's the brilliance of fantasy...we dont have to be perfect....LOL!!!

 

[dante58701]

Perhaps we can rule that creatures that are not subject to critical hits have no vitals and thus they simply grow back everything since nothing is truly vital and they are effectively a colloidal mass.

 

[mercucio]

U_K,

1. What HD would you assign something the size of a small moon (think Spelljammer liveworld)? I have this nasty idea for a giant sentient instellar plant-moon but I have a feeling that its sheer size will render it pretty much invulnerable to anything short of an Adamic Dragon or First One/Old One.

2. What size elemental's vortex/whirlwind/burn/ect be worth a divine ability?

 

[dante58701]

That just sounds awesome.

 

[paradox42]

The idea of someone reforming after being fed through a meat grinder is supernatural in my opinion - because it simply doesn't happen in the natural world.

But in sci-fi novels with nanotech- it does happen. The nanites are too small to be destroyed in the grinder, as are individual cells, so they start to rebuild the body. It just takes them longer. I know you're "across the pond," so you might not be familiar with the X-Files, but there are creatures in that show which illustrate the sort of thing I'm talking about- they show up in the last season or two. They're dubbed 'super-soldiers' by the show's protagonists, and are fairly terrifying until one of them discovers how to defeat the creatures. They have the sort of nanotech regeneration I'm talking about, and one of them comes back after being reduced- in a garbage-truck trash compactor no less- to nothing but pulp and a few fragments of metal.

Certainly it isn't something any fully-organic creature alive in the Earth of today can do! But that does not mean it isn't possible to do it. Even in a nonmagical fashion.

Yes...and any sufficiently advanced technology will seem like magic.

That does not mean that it actually is magic. It's all in how you actually define "magic," I suppose, and in my case that means it needs to be using a very specific cosmic force to qualify. If other forces are used, then the effect is not magical, even if it otherwise exactly duplicates an effect that is magical.

So basically what you are arguing is that nothing is supernatural, simply either contemporary or 'advanced'.

No, I'm not saying that either. See above. You appear to be saying that, but that's because your definition of 'magic' clearly differs from mine. Yours appears to be based on the what of an effect, whereas mine is based on the how. The difference is qualitative.

Perhaps technomages have a spell called Electro-Magnetic Field (instead of Anti-Magic Field), which shorts ot the nano-probes?

Actually, Technomages in my game are people who combine magic with machines, not a Babylon 5 analogue class. A Babylon 5 analogue, in my game, would be an Engineer (an NPC class) who happens to be using Wizardly trappings, probably out of feelings of inadequacy.

But in fact, one of my Advanced Energy Types (I have seven types of energy which produce "better" effects than the standard five in my setting, including Force and the sort of damage Disintegrate deals, which I call Disruption) is Electromagnetic, yes. And most computers and robots are vulnerable to damage by it, whereas most organic creatures (and Organic Technology of course) are not. So yes, it is possible for mages in my game to create an EM Field spell, which would logically damage any computer/robotic components in its area.

Does nanotech regen convert to fast healing if the subject is immune to fire and acid?

Of course not, the nanotech regeneration ignores Fire and Acid like everything else. Actually, the current version of the templates which grant that type of regeneration state that the only way to kill the creature is to reduce it to -10 hit points and then find its power core, the thing which is broadcasting power to the nanites, and shut it down; once that's done the regeneration finally stops. But the above discussion of Electromagnetic energy shows me that there actually IS one type of damage which should stop the nanotech regen- EM damage will do it because nanites get wiped and power gets overloaded.

I think we could settle all this if there was a threshold for physical oblivion. I'm thinking that a single source of damage that deals more than double the targets maximum hit points score will vapourise enough of the creature that even regeneration will prove ineffective.

Any thoughts?

Personally, I always did feel that would work for creatures like PIt Fiends; it's absurd to me that they have the ability to "come back" from having their bodies completely and utterly annihilated (by, for example, Disintegrate) just because it happens to deal damage in 3E and that damage isn't one of the particular types they're vulnerable to. So I can get behind this idea.

It also gives a new way to kill a Tarrasque, which allows for resolution of crazy notions like a Tarrasque being able to escape, say, a Draeden or the World Turtle- just because it normally needs a Wish to stay dead.

I agree with you that regeneration is multifaceted enough to be broken down into component parts, some of which may be extraordinary, some of which may be supernatural.

Good! Happy to help mate.

 

[paradox42]

1. What HD would you assign something the size of a small moon (think Spelljammer liveworld)? I have this nasty idea for a giant sentient instellar plant-moon but I have a feeling that its sheer size will render it pretty much invulnerable to anything short of an Adamic Dragon or First One/Old One.

The other one I can't really speak to, but this one I can answer- several of the posters here, including me, have built creatures using the "truly ridiculous" size categories the Bestiary includes. For this, I'd say it depends on how large your "small moon" is, exactly; moons can be pretty much any size in our universe (in fact, technically all those little satellites we have in orbit around Earth for communication and such are moons- they just happen to be moons we built and sent into orbit rather than natural ones).

But let's assume you meant something that's about- say, a couple hundred miles across. The Bestiary size tables don't directly show it, but sizes in the Mega range are what you're looking for. Mega-Fine starts at 48 miles and tops out at 96, and you can extrapolate from that what the next ones look like:

• Mega-Diminutive would be 96-192 miles.
• Mega-Tiny would be 192-384 miles.
• Mega-Small would be 384-768 miles.
• Mega-Medium would be 768-1536 miles.

I'll stop there, because in fact Earth's moon would fit into the Mega-Medium range if I remember my astronomy correctly. Earth itself would just barely be three sizes higher, Mega-Gargantuan, since its diameter is around 8000 miles.

And yes, creatures in that size range are really, really hard to kill. A'Tuin the Star Turtle is one obvious example; one of these days I'll get around to posting my version of the Draeden there which will be another. The Draeden's CR comes out to around 41,000; A'Tuin has CR above 84 million.

 

[dante58701]

Krusty should expand the size charts for those of us who suck at math. Id love the idea of playing a small moon.

 

[Pssthpok]

Krusty should expand the size charts for those of us who suck at math. Id love the idea of playing a small moon.

The charts can be expanded in Excel without too much trouble. I'd do it right now (before I'd post something like this) but I'm about to watch more Battlestar Galactica, so... you're on your own.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

They don't really need to be added to undead at all, do they? Fast healing is largely enough for them; even if you get into the question of severing an undead creature's limbs, that still seems too small to reinvent the wheel over.

Or you can just make it Su.

What people seem to be saying is that asking whether or not a rule should be revised is a valid question. If a mechanic is broken - if it slows down gameplay and is clumsy to adjudicate with the rest of the rules, then by all means, replace it with something that works better. But if it's that you have a philosophical problem with it, if you think its largely okay now, but could be better or more accurate in "real life," then that seems like a less solid reason to change it, especially when there's still so much other work to be done.

I'm sure there's something to be said for how such a revision would be better, more accurate, etc. But that can be said for virtually everything; nothing's so good that it can't be improved upon somehow.

There always has to be an 'off switch' with regeneration - otherwise it can get out of hand.

But in the meantime, U_K, I don't think that there's anyone here who wouldn't rather have you apply your prodigious talents to areas where the rules don't do a very good job of covering things, which is what the IH is all about.

I have spent infinitiely more time arguing the change than I ever did spend over making it in the first place.

That sounds like a small addition to the massive damage threshold rules.

Well its covering similar ground I suppose, but I would have the mechanic different.

That's been done: Ghost in the Shell d20.

There goes that idea.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Even 2x damage is too little. At Fighter or Barbarian at low levels will be vaporizing goblins left and right.

I like the threash-hold idea.

Perhaps it should be like this:
Hit Damage - Effect - Regeneration?
Damage = Max Hit points - Could render victem auto-unconcious (Unless they are immune) - Regeneration may still apply.

Damage = 2X Max HP - Probably breaks bones and destroyes vital organs. (Would prevent raise dead) - Regeneration had better work on a cellular level.

Damage = 4X Max HP - Blown Appart completely, Deatomized, Vaporized, Disinitgrated, Etc. (or for those of you who are a fan of Mummy from White Wolf, the "Dust/Ash damage level" ) (Would prevent ressurection less than True Rez) - Regeneration better work on a molecular level to save you.

Damage = Over 8X Max HP - "Total Oblivion" - I dont think ANYTHING comes back. (This kind of damage might even damage the soul of the individual; Meaning they won't want to come back)

Just ideas. Perhaps there also should be some sort of minimum damage level at each of these levels. Dealing 8X damage to a creature with 2 Hp isn't hard at 1st level: Crit with Greatsword...

I like the idea.

Pulped = -10 or lower from one attack - fast healing ineffective
Exploded = x3 - raise dead ineffective, molecular regeneration only
Atomized = x10 - resurrection ineffective*, regeneration impossible.

*Target can be 'recreated'.