Kulan: Knightfall's Heroes of Carnell Game [OOC]

[Knightfall]

@JustinCase:

Spoiler: For JustinCase

Hmm, I'm wondering if Caerth would be able to use Kang's deathwatch ability while wild shaped. I'll have to doublecheck and get back to you. Later.

I need to snooze for a while.

 

[Knightfall]

Heading to bed. I have physio early tomorrow.

 

[JustinCase]

So, Round Six is starting. @JustinCase, you're up.

I'm assuming you want to have the spiritjaws move to attack Tarrak. How far can it move in a round?

Tarrak is 25 feet away from Galzadar. however, the rocky shelf where the elf wizard is is 40 feet up. Hmm, I hate math.

Since it is basically diagonal movement for the spiritjaws, I'm going to say it is 60 feet from the elf to Tarrak. If it can get there and attack him, this round roll another Caster Level check.

The spell does not specify, only that I can redirect it to a different target on my turn as a move action. I guess (but I'd like your DM ruling for that) it instantly reappears where I want it to, within the normal range.

I'll roll a caster level check. If you agree with my assessment, it'll target Tarrak; if you say it can't move that far, I'll have it attack the flying ghast instead (I assume it also has SR).

Caster level check: 1D20+9 = [15]+9 = 24

And I'll post in the IC once I know which target it'll be. And add my regular action, and Screech's.

 

[Knightfall]

The spell does not specify, only that I can redirect it to a different target on my turn as a move action. I guess (but I'd like your DM ruling for that) it instantly reappears where I want it to, within the normal range.

I'll roll a caster level check. If you agree with my assessment, it'll target Tarrak; if you say it can't move that far, I'll have it attack the flying ghast instead (I assume it also has SR).

Caster level check: 1D20+9 = [15]+9 = 24

And I'll post in the IC once I know which target it'll be. And add my regular action, and Screech's.

The flying ghast is a lot further away than Tarrak is from the spiritjaws. I don't think it would instantly move to another target. I think if it could do that it would say in the spell's description... at least, it should say that if it is true.

The only thing I can think of for the range that force-based spells can travel in a single round is the range of each spell. So, for spiritjaws, it would be 100 ft. + 10 feet/level. For Caerth, that would be a flying speed of 190 feet for the spiritjaws in one round. That seems very fast to me.

In comparison, the unseen servant has a speed of 15 feet, but that doesn't seem fast enough for spiritjaws (a 3rd-level spell), but it is the only benchmark I can think of for a force effect that can move. Maybe it should be 15 feet/level for all spells that can move around in a fight, unless the spell says otherwise. The various Bigby hand spells don't say how far they can move either, just that redirecting them is a move action.

Anyway, unless I can find an official ruling, I'm going to say it can move anywhere within the range of the spell, as it relates to Caerth's postion on the battle map, so it can easily get to Tarrak.

And, your caster level check was successful, so roll to hit vs. Tarrak.

 

[Knightfall]

I found this Sage Advice as it relates to the Bigby's hand spell for 5E. (I think it's for 5E.) So, that spell isn't considered to have a speed rating but it does move. That's so weird. Would spiritjaws be the same?


Time to check the old D&D v.3.5 FAQ.

 

[Tellerian Hawke]

My guess would be that you spend a move action re-directing it, and it moves to the new target during that move action, and attacks. No matter how far away it is, as long as it's within the spell's range, it has enough movement to get there. My opinion only. But I'm sure the FAQ will say.

 

[Neurotic]

Ummm...doesn't SR break the spell? Or is it in pathfinder?

Anyhow, if the spell doesn't specify the speed it doesn't have one. It simply moves where the caster directs it and attacks. Whether you describe it as super-fast spririt-trail jaws or simply winking out and reappearing or turning into butterflies and flying around, the fact is the caster directs it and it attacks.

If it doesn't say it is move action it says 'as a free action you can direct the jaws to pin.'

But in this case I think the first line is the relevant one:
"A set of ghostly dinosaur jaws comes into being and attacks THE CREATURE YOU DESIGNATE" note: one creature, note creatures
There is no provision from changing the target. So either the elf is immune to the spell and it dissipates (or bites harmlessly through him) or he needs to roll SR each round. I would lean on the former side as usually you have only one chance to bypass SR.

 

[Knightfall]

My guess would be that you spend a move action re-directing it, and it moves to the new target during that move action, and attacks. No matter how far away it is, as long as it's within the spell's range, it has enough movement to get there. My opinion only. But I'm sure the FAQ will say.

The FAQ says nothing.

 

[Knightfall]

Ummm...doesn't SR break the spell? Or is it in pathfinder?

See, I wasn't sure about that. I'll take a look at the rules for SR again. Is it wrong for me to hope it breaks the spell. Heh.

Anyhow, if the spell doesn't specify the speed it doesn't have one. It simply moves where the caster directs it and attacks. Whether you describe it as super-fast spririt-trail jaws or simply winking out and reappearing or turning into butterflies and flying around, the fact is the caster directs it and it attacks.

If it doesn't say it is move action it says 'as a free action you can direct the jaws to pin.'

But in this case I think the first line is the relevant one:
"A set of ghostly dinosaur jaws comes into being and attacks THE CREATURE YOU DESIGNATE" note: one creature, note creatures
There is no provision from changing the target. So either the elf is immune to the spell and it dissipates (or bites harmlessly through him) or he needs to roll SR each round. I would lean on the former side as usually you have only one chance to bypass SR.

Yeah, it doesn't have a speed, as far as I can tell. It does still move across the battlefield, it just doesn't have a limit besides the range limit of the spell.

There is this errata for spiritjaws:

Each round after the first, you can use a move action to redirect the spiritjaws to a new target. If you do not, the spiritjaws continue to attack the previous round's target. On any round that the spiritjaws switches targets, it gets one attack. Subsequent rounds of attacking that target allow the spiritjaws to make multiple attacks if your base attack bonus would allow it to.

So, if SR doesn't pooch it, then I guess it should be able to try to keep attacking the elf. Personally, I think your right that the spell just fails and is gone but I want to doublecheck the rules.

 

[Knightfall]

Since spiritjaws is an Evocation (Force) effect spell, this section seems to be the most relevant:

Effect Spells: Most effect spells summon or create something and are not subject to spell resistance. Sometimes, however, spell resistance applies to effect spells, usually to those that act upon a creature more or less directly, such as web.

Spell resistance can protect a creature from a spell that’s already been cast. Check spell resistance when the creature is first affected by the spell.

Check spell resistance only once for any particular casting of a spell or use of a spell-like ability. If spell resistance fails the first time, it fails each time the creature encounters that same casting of the spell. Likewise, if the spell resistance succeeds the first time, it always succeeds. If the creature has voluntarily lowered its spell resistance and is then subjected to a spell, the creature still has a single chance to resist that spell later, when its spell resistance is up.
— This seems to be the main point of whether or not the spiritjaws can keep attacking the elf or not. The elf's SR succeeded in blocking the spell, so it succeed against that casting every time Caerth tries to direct it at the elf. It doesn't say that an ongoing force effect like spirijaws would be disrupted or destroyed. (KF)

Spell resistance has no effect unless the energy created or released by the spell actually goes to work on the resistant creature’s mind or body. If the spell acts on anything else and the creature is affected as a consequence, no roll is required. Creatures can be harmed by a spell without being directly affected.
— Since the spell didn't actually hit the elf, an SR roll probably wasn't required yet. The same thing for Tarrak. But, to speed up pbp play, it's probably better to roll it even before it hits. And since Caerth beat Tarrak's SR, the spiritjaws will continue to attack the ghast lord until it either hits or Caerth sends it against a different foe. (KF)

Spell resistance does not apply if an effect fools the creature’s senses or reveals something about the creature.

Magic actually has to be working for spell resistance to apply. Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren’t subject to spell resistance unless the resistant creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast.

When in doubt about whether a spell’s effect is direct or indirect, consider the spell’s school:

Evocation: If an evocation spell deals damage to the creature, it has a direct effect. If the spell damages something else, it has an indirect effect.