TSR Now it’s WotC’s Turn: WotC Moves Against TSR3

I guess after you provoke somebody enough, they’ll eventually bite back. The company has begun trademark cancellation procedures against the newest TSR.

TSR3 briefly filed for a court declaration on Dec 7th as to their ownership of the TSR trademarks — with an IndieGoGo campaign to fund it — and then voluntarily dismissed it a couple of days later on Dec 9th.

This filing is dated Dec 6th, the day before TSR3 launched its campaign.

In WotC’s response, they cite fraud as one of the causes of action, alleging that TSR3 misled the trademark office in its original application.

Mike Dunford, on Twitter, breaks down the action.

TSR - TSR3.5 Voluntarily Dismisses Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed by TSR3 against D&D owners Wizards of the Coast a few days ago was voluntarily dismissed. Dismissal without prejudice means that the suit can be filed again. The suit lasted two days from the 7th to the 9th of December. The IndieGoGo fundraiser to fund it is still running...

www.enworld.org

TSR - TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those...

www.enworld.org

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Because of the type of person LaNasa seems to be, it's like he doesn't understand or care (more likely) that the second item conflicts with the first item to a large degree, as it actively drives many people who might have been actually interested in some new TSR-labeled products. It's certainly driven away some of the creative talent they hoped to draw to nuTSR.

I agree with everything you wrote, but I'd go even farther.

For those of us who still have fond memories of TSR (as in, we still associate "TSR" with the amazing products that were put out), this is a total travesty.

It's find to have the past stay in the past. But it's absolutely terrible when someone resurrects a beloved mark and abuses it like this. They are knowingly trafficking in the nostalgia, and making it curdle because of their ineptness and divisiveness.

Yeah, it's just a mark. It's just three letters. But it's a shame.

 

[Umbran]

Okay, let's play the overbearing pedant game that you love.

I am not playing any games, and I have already said I have taken this tangent as far as I intend to.

 

[Sir Brennen]

For those of us who still have fond memories of TSR (as in, we still associate "TSR" with the amazing products that were put out), this is a total travesty.

Yeah, even without the reactionary element, just the whole sleaziness and mismanagement concerning the company/trademark has been enough to turn a lot of people off.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

That's fair. It's more what people bring with their memories (themselves, their own attitudes) than the company itself. The discourse we're seeing pretty well mirrors what we've seen in other hobbies and fandoms, and even broader the culture. The appeals, the arguments, the vileness, it all starts to feel so repetitive.

But I'd say that I've seen heated arguments over TSR the company - look back to discussions of Lorraine Williams, when 2e came out, or in the later 90s when they started sending their lawyers after fan websites.

I really don't think it's about memories of different versions of TSR causing any "heat" or "virtriol". That line of discussion upthread was more about its value as a marketing tool in the modern gaming era, and the different way people remember the company (if at all) impacting said value. I've never really seen any heated arguments over TSR as a company, though, despite those different feelings/memories of it.

What LaNasa and nuTSR are playing on are a couple of different but occasionally intersecting things:

1. People who would be drawn to products with the TSR trademark, for a variety of reasons (Nostalgia, "official" OSR products )
2. People who are "offended" by the labeling of older products as something that might have some content problems when viewed through modern sensibilities (anti-Wokeness)

It's the second one where the vitriol stems from. There may be bad faith arguments about the first, especially with regard to the trademark legal drama, but I'd say they're mostly rooted in the feelings of the second group.

Because of the type of person LaNasa seems to be, it's like he doesn't understand or care (more likely) that the second item conflicts with the first item to a large degree, as it actively drives many people who might have been actually interested in some new TSR-labeled products. It's certainly driven away some of the creative talent they hoped to draw to nuTSR.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That's fair. It's more what people bring with their memories (themselves, their own attitudes) than the company itself. The discourse we're seeing pretty well mirrors what we've seen in other hobbies and fandoms, and even broader the culture. The appeals, the arguments, the vileness, it all starts to feel so repetitive.

So, how do YOU feel about the new Star Wars trilogy?

 

[Dire Bare]

I really don't think it's about memories of different versions of TSR causing any "heat" or "virtriol".

If you were a D&D fan in the 70s, 80s, and/or 90s . . . . and perhaps were not aware of T$R (They $ue Regularly) and the mismanagement of the company, you might have very fond memories of their products and associate that with the TSR brand. If you were aware of how badly managed the company was and how poorly it treated it's customers and employees at times, you might still have fond memories of the products, but separate those good feelings from the brand.

Two different TSR's . . . . or rather, two different perspectives on the same company, those who associate the name TSR with all that classic D&D goodness, and those who make the distinction between the wonderful games and the terrible company.

 

[Sir Brennen]

But I'd say that I've seen heated arguments over TSR the company - look back to discussions of Lorraine Williams, when 2e came out, or in the later 90s when they started sending their lawyers after fan websites.

I'm old enough to remember those times (note my avatar), and don't recall a lot of argument amongst the game's fandom of those events. (Sure, lots of feelings about 2E coming out, as with any new edition, but conversations about the company with regards to that were tangential. People were talking about the changes to the game.) I mean, were there fans of TSR rabidly defending their litigious nature? As with anything, there are degrees, but I don't think I ever saw anyone say what TSR was doing at that time was a Good Idea in its totality.

Of course, we're talking about the days when such discussions were had in the letters pages of Dragon magazine, where the company obviously had control over what was printed, or small BBS's, or UseNet... in short, not a particularly wide audience to either participate or observe such discussions, so there may have been a pro-sue-the-fans faction I'm not aware of.

Still, I don't think it's those divisions that LaNasa has been trying to tap into in this day and age.

Two different TSR's . . . . or rather, two different perspectives on the same company, those who associate the name TSR with all that classic D&D goodness, and those who make the distinction between the wonderful games and the terrible company.

I don't disagree at all. I'm just saying the difference in those perspectives isn't the energy LaNasa is tapping into. I think even people who remember the screw-ups of old TSR might still be interested in new products with their trademark, mainly because of the implications of the types of products that might mean. At least, might have been interested, until nuTSR also revealed itself to be a clusterduck of incompetence.

But he is at the same time, and to a large degree contradictorily, trying to tap into the divisions created by WotC's actions on labeling some older material as potentially out of touch. And there is a fair amount of heat there (just read the latest thread on the Errata), but looking at his IndieGoGo, it's more smoke than fire.

 

[darjr]

I’m in the same boat about not knowing lots of details about TSR back then. But looking back at Usenet I can see how they made a lot of folks steaming mad.

 

[Stormonu]

It seems TSR has gone from "They Sue Regularly" to "They're Sued Regularly"

 

[darjr]

This just… such irony.