Obi-Wan Kenobi (spoilers)

Who did what where?

Oh, was there a cartoon that I missed? Possibly.

People have to remember that these shows are not meant for hardcore fans that have devoured every single thing Star Wars for the past twenty years or more. They're for people like me who watch it from time to time.

Not to mention kids who might be watching Star Wars for the first time.
For what it's worth, I thought it did a good job of adding value to the original trilogy. I was a little worried when young Leia showed up in the first episode, but by the end I thought they did a great job with it.

Also, one of my favourite things about Disney Star Wars is the way they combine the visual aesthetics of the prequels and the original trilogy. That aspect was particularly strong with this series. They created some iconic imagery, especially with that last episode.
 

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People have to remember that these shows are not meant for hardcore fans that have devoured every single thing Star Wars for the past twenty years or more. They're for people like me who watch it from time to time.
I'm pretty sure one of the things the Disney+ shows are meant to do is encourage people to watch the animated shows: also availabe through your Disney+ subscription.
Not to mention kids who might be watching Star Wars for the first time.
Probably watched The Clone Wars before they saw ANH.
 

pukunui

Legend
Also, one of my favourite things about Disney Star Wars is the way they combine the visual aesthetics of the prequels and the original trilogy. That aspect was particularly strong with this series. They created some iconic imagery, especially with that last episode.
I feel like this last episode also invoked The Last Jedi in its positioning of Obi-Wan with his back to a wall vs Darth Vader approaching across an open plain, only it was inverted with Obi-Wan on the left and Vader on the right (whereas TLJ had Luke on the right and Kylo on the left.)
 

People have to remember that these shows are not meant for hardcore fans that have devoured every single thing Star Wars for the past twenty years or more. They're for people like me who watch it from time to time.

You seem to have read my comment as if I thought only 'hardcore' fans should get shows. That's not it at all. I actually said,

Me said:
I suppose it's nice to get a 'mask cut open to reveal Anakin's scarred face' scene for all the folks who'll never watch that cartoon.

See? I don't get bothered if people haven't seen everything in the franchise.

What I'm bothered by, though, is that this is a big marquee production, and it wasn't well done. It's wholly possible to make a show for casual fans that's actually tightly written and produced. The Mandalorian did that really well. This show didn't.
 

delericho

Legend
I enjoyed the episode, mostly, as I've enjoyed the show, mostly.

My one big problem with it is that Obi-wan had the beating of Vader, again, and walked away leaving him alive, again. Given that he is (as far as he knows) one of only two Jedi masters left alive, and given that Vader represents a huge danger both to the galaxy as a whole and to Luke and Leia in particular, shouldn't he have finished the job?

(And, funnily enough, the producers had a way out of that already built in - all they needed to do was bring his "Luke's in danger!" vision forward by a few seconds, and he suddenly has a really good reason to leave the job half-done.)
 


Hussar

Legend
There's always been a pretty strong element of mercy in the Jedi depictions. Sort of a Lord of the Rings "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then donot be too eager to deal out death in judgement" element has always been in the series. Plus, the fact that Anakin is actually the one to kill the Emperor in the end, killing Vader here wouldn't actually accomplish anything and likely would have made things far, far worse.

After all, if Vader dies, then someone else becomes the Emperor's new apprentice. Someone with no connections whatsoever to the Skywalkers and someone who just blows the Millennium Falcon out of the air rather than letting it escape. Or some such thing. It's pretty much on message for Obi-wan not to finish Vader off.

Which, like @Paul Farquhar says, is nicely mirrored by the fact that Reva can't do it either, even though, realistically, she probably should. Allowing the child of Anakin Skywalker to survive is an incredibly dangerous thing. If Luke had turned to the Dark Side, things would have gone very, very badly for everyone.

@Rangerwicket said:
What I'm bothered by, though, is that this is a big marquee production, and it wasn't well done. It's wholly possible to make a show for casual fans that's actually tightly written and produced.

Meh, I'm not seeing the problems here. It was fun. It was more than good enough to make me actually look forward to watching it when it came out - the first Star Wars production where that's been true in decades. I liked the characters, liked the story, and found the writing and acting to be pretty good. Certainly as good as Star Wars gets.

Do people actually watch Star Wars for the writing and the plot? Seriously?
 

That was a great finale to the most satisfying Star Wars prequel we've gotten so far. Yeah, there's things to quibble with here or there, but at the end of the day it tied up all the loose ends the series had efficiently with solid emotional payoffs. Series finales are rarely this good, all things considered, even when they don't also have to work around a bunch of established canon.

There were dumb things in every episode, but all and all I really love this series. It seemed to flesh out the characters of the original trilogy, without causing any serious continuity issues, while also making the prequel trilogy feel more meaningfully connected to the original.

On the whole it was possibly my favorite Star Wars thing outside of the original trilogy, and definitely my favorite addition to the core "Skywalker Saga" narrative.

My one big problem with it is that Obi-wan had the beating of Vader, again, and walked away leaving him alive, again. Given that he is (as far as he knows) one of only two Jedi masters left alive, and given that Vader represents a huge danger both to the galaxy as a whole and to Luke and Leia in particular, shouldn't he have finished the job?

No, but a line or two referencing the consequence of that decision and the reasoning probably would have made it seem less irresponsible. I can accept that Kenobi can't bring himself to kill even the husk that once was Anakin, who was basically a brother, a son, and a best friend all wrapped up into one for him, and I think McGreggor's acting and what we know of the relationship almost tells that story and explains that decision well enough, but an actual line spelling it out a bit more might have been good. I think not explaining and letting the audience ponder could be better with comparable characters in a different series, but given that everyone knows he couldn't kill Vader here for continuity reasons, the character reasoning probably should have been spelled out better so it doesn't seem like an overly convenient decision.

That said the dialogue between Vader and Kenobi here was excellent as is, and I'd hesitate to change any of it.
 
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delericho

Legend
No. Because in that case, Reva should have finished the job.
The difference being that Luke is a helpless innocent. Vader is an armed and dangerous mass-murderer who will do it again - he's literally just said he's not going to stop. And as far as Obi-wan knows this may be the only chance anyone ever gets to deal with him.

Being unable to take a life is not weakness.
The Jedi took hundreds of lives in the Clone Wars. Even in this series, Obi-wan has killed multiple stormtroopers without a second thought. He's quite capable of taking a life.
 

The Jedi took hundreds of lives in the Clone Wars.
And it led to the destruction of the order. It's pretty clear in the narrative that the jedi where wrong to allow themselves to be sucked into the Clone War.
And as far as Obi-wan knows this may be the only chance anyone ever gets to deal with him.
The Force will deal with him. It's called faith, the thing Kenobi just got back.
 

damiller

Explorer
The difference being that Luke is a helpless innocent. Vader is an armed and dangerous mass-murderer who will do it again - he's literally just said he's not going to stop. And as far as Obi-wan knows this may be the only chance anyone ever gets to deal with him.


The Jedi took hundreds of lives in the Clone Wars. Even in this series, Obi-wan has killed multiple stormtroopers without a second thought. He's quite capable of taking a life.
I see it in the same vein as Gollum in Lord of the Rings.

It was not Frodo that destroyed the ring, it was Gollum.

Had Frodo killed Gollum, the ring would not have been destroyed. He played a pivotal part in its destruction. Hence Gandalf's warning noted upthread.

Vader is Gollum. If not for him, the Emperor (as noted up thread) would not have been killed. We know that because we've seen it.

In way not killing Vader is the reverse of Christ. Folks begged him to not kill himself. To stay around and heal and bless. And at least to Christians - if he had actually done that, it would have been a disaster. Oh sure, the 100s of thousands he could have helped in 1st century. But what about the billions since then? Ok. Vader killed many people, but how many did he save by "ending" the Emperor?

Yes Kenobi could have killed him. he knows how. But discretion, isn't it the better part of valor? And in the end is that what makes him different from Vader?
 






Bolares

Hero
When Obi-wan delivers that line in RotS he believes that he has killed Vader. He's surprised when Reva lets slip that Vader's still alive.
He believes he gave vader a mortal wound and left him to die. Even then Obi-wan couldn't give the mortal blow. It took everything from him, in the heat of the battle to do what he did in RotS, it's completelly in character for him to not be able to do it now.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I feel like the Qui Gonn encounter should have been before the Vader fight. Classic pep talk, Kenobi goes back in full of faith.
 

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