Polymorph Self Nerfed?

[GamerGeek]

In the version of Polymorph self that is the PHB, you are allowed to change form once each round.

In the newer version that is in Tome and Blood, it says to use its descripiton of Polymorph Self and ignore what it says in the PHB.

I understand that the version of Polymorph in Tome and Blood is there to clarify what types of creatures you can polymorph into and other concepts of the spell that were confusing. But to remove the ability to chagne shape once per round from Polymorph Self seems a little more than "clarification"; it totally changes the power of Polymorph Self.

Does anyone know if this was done on purpose, or if there is errata on this change? Did they really mean to do away with the ability to change shape once a round with Polymorph Self?

 

[Berk]

Does anyone know if this was done on purpose, or if there is errata on this change? Did they really mean to do away with the ability to change shape once a round with Polymorph Self?

The change is the errata. What is in T&B is the errata.

I would say they did since it isn't mentioned in the official errata. Not to mention if they didn't then shapechange would be an almost useless and worthless 9th level spell. =o)

 

[AuraSeer]

Does anyone know if this was done on purpose, or if there is errata on this change? Did they really mean to do away with the ability to change shape once a round with Polymorph Self?

This change was made on purpose, because Poly Self was otherwise too strong for a 4th-level spell.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Because if you don't take that ability of the spell away, then polymorph self becomes an 'essential' spell which any wizard should have on ALL THE TIME.

It gives you defensive and offensive powers, the ability to move in any environment, skill bonuses, the ability to see invisible and ethereal creatures, the ability to see in the dark, or even a darkness spell, and also removes your dependance on your physical attributes.

It's almost STILL too good, and in it's original form it was so much too good (while at the same time being ill-defined) that it was ridiculous.

 

[bret]

Because if you don't take that ability of the spell away, then polymorph self becomes an 'essential' spell which any wizard should have on ALL THE TIME.

It gives you defensive and offensive powers, the ability to move in any environment, skill bonuses, the ability to see invisible and ethereal creatures, the ability to see in the dark, or even a darkness spell, and also removes your dependance on your physical attributes.

It's almost STILL too good, and in it's original form it was so much too good (while at the same time being ill-defined) that it was ridiculous.

The spell only grants natural abilities, not supernatural or extraordinary abilities. I don't see how you have it grant some of the things you've listed.

Specifically, I don't think it would grant:

• ability to see ethereal creatures
• darkvision is questionable
• ability to move in any environment. For example, I can't see it providing something that would allow you to swim in lava. Many planes would also have areas outside the ability of a natural creature to survive.

The spell is still very powerful, especially if someone has memorized the monster manual and the GM doesn't require any familiarity with the creatures.

 

[Jay Lofstead]

To compensate for the errata, we made a 7th level spell that is greater polymorph self that has the same duration as shapechange, allows you to change form once per round, but has the other limitations of polymorph self. I think that is much more in line.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Bret - darkvision is a nonmagical ability of multiple races. It falls in the exact same category as 'the low-light vision of an owl', which is specifically listed as being granted.

In the same way, Kuo-toa's happen to be able to pick out any moving object, regardless of whether it is ethereal, invisible or astral, and the writeup of the ability suggests that it falls into that 'natural' area of abilities, and therefore is the same.

And before you go dismissing (ex) abilities, let me just point out that a number of abilities which the polymorph spell lists as natural abilities are in fact (ex) abilities (constrict, rake). It is very clear that the dividing line between a gross physical ability and an (ex) ability is thin to the point of almost being nonexistant. Just about the only things which probably wouldn't be granted are certain skill bonuses arising from cultural or mental conditions, and often this distinction is extremely unclear.

Also - it DOES give you the ability to move in any environment. Flying, burrowing and swimming speeds (often quite high ones) are all available. It doesn't necessarily give you the ability to survive in any environment, but neither does any other core spell of a comparable level.

As for the GM allowing you to read through the monster manual? It's not needed. You WILL meet monsters with useful abilities, and after a short period of observation or combat, you WILL be able to polymorph into them. And with an unlimited number of polymorphs a day, why would you not test out each and every form you can?

 

[hong]

Bret - darkvision is a nonmagical ability of multiple races. It falls in the exact same category as 'the low-light vision of an owl', which is specifically listed as being granted.

In the same way, Kuo-toa's happen to be able to pick out any moving object, regardless of whether it is ethereal, invisible or astral, and the writeup of the ability suggests that it falls into that 'natural' area of abilities, and therefore is the same.

And before you go dismissing (ex) abilities, let me just point out that a number of abilities which the polymorph spell lists as natural abilities are in fact (ex) abilities (constrict, rake). It is very clear that the dividing line between a gross physical ability and an (ex) ability is thin to the point of almost being nonexistant.

Low-light vision is natural, because owls exist in real life. Darkvision is unnatural, because orcs don't exist in real life.
Seeing moving objects is also unnatural, because kuo-toa also don't exist in real life.

 

[Kraedin]

The subject does not gain the [ . . . ] extraordinary abilities of the new creature.

The constrict and rake abilities are natural abilities. Any listing that refers to them as an extraordinary ability is in error.

Also, IMHO, the polymorph line of spells are still gruesomely overpowered, and need a far more dramatic re-write than the one presented in T&B.

 

[Dimwhit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but owls do not have low-light vision. They have a bonus to their spot check. None of the animals in the MM have low-light vision. Not that I've found. But darkvision is an EX ability and not granted with polymorph. Personally it's stupid. I dare anyone to polymorph into a bat. You don't get blindsight, so you can fly at 90' but your vision is limited to 10'. It's suicidal. (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, and cite a source...)