Ready action outside of combat

[Kae'Yoss]

It's possibly worth checking p64, where the moron who wrote the DMG explicitly states "Don't allow players to use the ready action outside of combat".

Maybe all us morons and rules lawyers take that too literally.

-Hyp.

Hee hee

Give that man a prize

IceBear

I'll second that! First price for sarcastic yet non-insulting post goes to Hypersmurf.

I'd second that.

I think he deserves one, too, for not getting it.

Readied Actions are for combat.

There are better ways to determine who comes first, without overusing existing rules to "frell" the spirit of important game mechanics (real rules lawyaring, IMO).

As has been pointed out, it's all about reaction, and both will be ready for the other to move (after all, the one with the blade at his throat could ready an action to pull away if he stabs, and suddenly it's very complicated), so we'll stick with good ol' initiative.

As smetzger pointed out, there are always circumstance bonuses for initiative (although the sword-at-throat situation would, IMO, not justify one, since both are now aware that the other might/will move, and it's just down to who could react faster)

 

[DDK]

I think he deserves one, too, for not getting it.

Err... no... you'd be the one not 'getting it'... but anyway...

You know, the rules don't, and shouldn't, apply to every single situation. They are guidelines to be adapted to circumstance.

I mean, you say you're in combat, ok, fine, that takes care of those examples I gave but what about the billion other situations which crop up where it would be justified to say someone has a readied action?

The one I'm thinking of in particular is what spurred this question in the first place. The PC's enter a room and are gathered before two people sitting in chairs. Another person stands to the side of the two. Three invisible rogues are aiming crossbows at the PC's. They have 'readied' actions that should anyone attack the two seated individuals, they fire upon the aggressor.

Now nobody is in combat until someone initiates it however I feel it's entirely justified to say that the rogues get their shots off before the aggressor has even managed to finish drawing their weapon.

Now it can't be surprise either since that too would indicate a readied action anyway since you're allowing them to go first.

 

[IceBear]

Err... no... you'd be the one not 'getting it'... but anyway...

You know, the rules don't, and shouldn't, apply to every single situation. They are guidelines to be adapted to circumstance.

I mean, you say you're in combat, ok, fine, that takes care of those examples I gave but what about the billion other situations which crop up where it would be justified to say someone has a readied action?

The one I'm thinking of in particular is what spurred this question in the first place. The PC's enter a room and are gathered before two people sitting in chairs. Another person stands to the side of the two. Three invisible rogues are aiming crossbows at the PC's. They have 'readied' actions that should anyone attack the two seated individuals, they fire upon the aggressor.

Now nobody is in combat until someone initiates it however I feel it's entirely justified to say that the rogues get their shots off before the aggressor has even managed to finish drawing their weapon.

Now it can't be surprise either since that too would indicate a readied action anyway since you're allowing them to go first.

But they are in combat. Just because they aren't fighting doesn't mean that you couldn't have rolled Iniatitive (secretly) and had them ready actions.

Actually it would be better just to treat it as surprise. Why wouldn't it be surprise? What's surprise normally - Side A is aware of the Side B before Side B is aware of Side A. What the hell do you do if the party is walking down the road and a group of thugs have readied an ambush? You make spot and listen checks and if the party fails to notice the thugs, the thugs attack first with a partial action - just like as if they had readied an action. So, if the invisible rogues decided to shoot the PCs and the PCs weren't aware they are there, then they got surprise and the attacks were with their partial actions, not readied actions.

If the party WERE aware that they were there, then I'd definitely go with the initiative rolls. I mean if I told the PCs that there were three invisble rogues with crossbows at their back, but they didn't appear like they were going to fire, you KNOW that the PCs are going to also ready actions, so at this point I'd just roll initiatives and conduct the negotiations. If something went wrong, then combat begins as per the initiatives. I'd probably give the rogues a large bonus on Initiative as they had the crossbow drawn and whereas the PCs probably didn't.

IceBear

 

[Ferox4]

Ok, so what's the next thread gonna be? - "Is Initiative broken?"

Puuuhleeeeease

It is up to the DM to determine when initiative is rolled. Like many of their other multitudinous responsibilities, they determine whose sees, hears, smells, senses the who and what of any given encounter. Our group has fallen into that trap once before and it was merely because the DM (me, in that instance) had not placed the scenario into an initiative format. I learned my lesson.

As soon as one side is aware of the other it's time for initiative. If the PCs are aware I ask for initiative rolls; if they're not I do it secretly. You can even have your players give you 10 or so d20 rolls prior to play and use them for secret rolls that you don't want to give away during the game.

edited for spelling

 

[evilbob]

I agree with Icebear: it's hard for me to imagine a situation in which what you're describing cannot be resolved with the normal surprise round rules. Essentially, anytime anyone says outside of combat, "I prepare/ready myself to do this action as soon as ____ happens," they are setting up a surprise round that initiates combat. As in Icebear's example, thugs set up a surprise round "as soon as the heros come into our range/view." In your situation, the Rouges set up the surprise round to happen "as soon as things go bad." I think this is a fair way to handle things, since (unless someone notices the Rouges - which is another story altogether) the Rouges would automatically get to go first and the defenders would be flat-footed. If you changed the rules, that opens up questions as to whether or not the Rouges can fire multiple times before combat is underway or not.

 

[the Jester]

No, I don't generally allow creatures to ready actions outside of combat... BUT:

OVERWATCH (General, Fighter)

You can ready a missile weapon and cover a specific area outside of initiative.

Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

Benefits: You can cover an area of up to your dex bonus in adjacent 5’x5’ squares with a ready action with a missile weapon, even outside of initiative. You may then fire a single shot as a partial action before surprise is checked for.

Normal: You cannot ready an action outside of the regular initiative system.


That's my solution to the problem- a custom feat. Nobody's taken it yet, though, even though there's an archer character in my game (and she's around 14th level!)

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Originally posted by Smetzger

Its perfectly within the rules to give a circumstance bonus to inititiative under certain conditions.

This is how I handle it. Surprise rounds and bonuses/penalties (very seldom) to initiatives.

Never readied actions out of combat.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

BTW, I have never penalised initiative so I lie.

But I would if characters had just woken , were intoxicated or were somehow in a state of exceptional unreadiness.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now nobody is in combat until someone initiates it however I feel it's entirely justified to say that the rogues get their shots off before the aggressor has even managed to finish drawing their weapon.

That's a surprise situation.

If one of the PCs makes the DC 20 Spot Check to know that there are invisible creatures present (somewhere), he might get to roll initiative in the surprise round; anyone who was unaware of their existence would get no action in the surprise round.

-Hyp.

 

[DDK]

Okay, fine, so it could work as a surprise round where anyone not aware of the rogues doesn't get an initiative roll in the surprise round.

The guy who said it to me in a chatroom, however, is still a moron, regardless of this... but even idiots can be right sometimes