Should you be able to dodge a fireball by readying an action?

[Mistwell]

It takes as long to use a wand as it does to cast the spell itself, and you have to speak, and you have to point your wand at a target. Any of those activities can be the subject of a readied action.

 

[Legildur]

I've never been satisfied with the Readying rules. I've always struggled with the notion that you can interrupt and disrupt spellcasting and yet your initiative resets to before their turn as your action takes place before theirs.

In Rangerwickett's scenario, I'd definately grant the Ready action to avoid the fireball because of 'theatrical' reasons, particularly as the individual is trying to escape rather than close with the wizard. It now becomes a game of the wizard trying to second-guess the evading character's Ready action and trying to anticipate which way they might move (until he runs out of fireballs or is successful in landing one). Then again, the wizard might just give up and cast Magic Missile instead

 

[Hypersmurf]

It takes as long to use a wand as it does to cast the spell itself, and you have to speak, and you have to point your wand at a target. Any of those activities can be the subject of a readied action.

But given that you make all pertinent decisions about a spell when it comes into effect, any pointing must happen at the end - when the spell comes into effect.

There's no point in pointing the wand before the spell comes into effect, because that's not when pertinent decisions are made.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

But given that you make all pertinent decisions about a spell when it comes into effect, any pointing must happen at the end - when the spell comes into effect.

There's no point in pointing the wand before the spell comes into effect, because that's not when pertinent decisions are made.

-Hyp.

You must aim the wand at the target. If aiming the wand at the target is the activity that triggers the readied action, then you are no longer aiming the wand at the target if the target has moved.

Just because spells have all decisions made at the end doesn't mean wands don't add an extra element to that, and they do seem to. In addition to the requirements of a spell having decisions made at the end, you have things like an additional verbal component for a wand (even if the spell has no verbal component) and aiming the wand at the target (even if the spell does not normally requirement a somatic component).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just because spells have all decisions made at the end doesn't mean wands don't add an extra element to that, and they do seem to. In addition to the requirements of a spell having decisions made at the end, you have things like an additional verbal component for a wand (even if the spell has no verbal component) and aiming the wand at the target (even if the spell does not normally requirement a somatic component).

Right. But since the target isn't determined until the spell comes into effect, you don't aim the wand at the target until that time.

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

But given that you make all pertinent decisions about a spell when it comes into effect

I've tried to correct you gently, but you keep repeating this same passage, and it's starting to bug me. So here are some spells which prominently feature decisions made after they come into effect:

- Shapechange. You can make a new pertinent decision every round.
- Flaming Sphere. You can make a new pertinent decision as a Move action. This one is extra interesting because the decision you make is in regard to targeting.
- Mage's Sword. See above.
- Spiritual Weapon. See above, too.
- Call Lightning. Again with the targeting.
- Silent Image (and kin). Arguable, if you decide location is a pertinent decision.
- Implosion.

That's off the top of my head.

The passage you keep repeating is not in agreement with the rest of the rules. Please please please find a new argument.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Zurai]

Nifft, all of those spells very specifically reference the fact that you can alter the already-determined parameters of the spell after the cast. The default is that you determine target and so on at the moment the spell is completed.

EDIT: More importantly, they all have a non-Instantaneous duration. You're comparing apples to apes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've tried to correct you gently, but you keep repeating this same passage...

It's the relevant one.

CASTING TIME
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action, just as noted above for 1- round casting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

I'm not sure how gentle correction applies when I'm quoting from the Magic Overview...?

-Hyp.

 

[Nifft]

I'm not sure how gentle correction applies when I'm quoting from the Magic Overview...?

There was a list of spells in my post, I'm certain.

That list contained spells which had pertinent decisions not made at the time the spell came into effect.

That's how it applies.

- - -

However, something else jumped out at me: the effect of a spell isn't necessarily the triggering condition. Let's look back at scorching ray.

Effect: ray.

The wizard can use the ray to make an attack, but the attack isn't actually an effect of the spell -- it's merely the use of the spell's effect. In this case, I'd posit that the spell effect must exist before it can be used for an attack -- and there's the interval where the PC's readied action ("run when attacked") could go off -- because the attack isn't strictly part of the spell.

In the case of fireball, note that the same principle could apply, thanks to this bit: "If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must 'hit' the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."

This argument doesn't generally apply to area effects, so I don't like it, but I'll take it as a freestanding support.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Nifft, all of those spells very specifically reference the fact that you can alter the already-determined parameters of the spell after the cast. The default is that you determine target and so on at the moment the spell is completed.

EDIT: More importantly, they all have a non-Instantaneous duration. You're comparing apples to apes.

Actually, call lightning does have an instantaneous effect. It's just that you can use the effect multiple times within the stated duration.

Cheers, -- N