Sneak Attacks on Rays

[Artoomis]

If I understand what you're saying here, in my second example, you agree that Liza's readied invisibility spell occurs after Bob's first attack but before his second attack. Am I understanding you correctly?

If so, my original question applies: does the ogre lose his dex bonus against his invisible opponent for Bob's second attack?

Daniel

I'm sure AGGEMAM will say you misunderstand - because a single attack as part of a full-attack action is not an action in and of itself.

Thus, AGGEMAM proposed making the readied action occur after the triggered action (teh full-attack), since it was based upon a completed action's results.

Not a bad way to go, really. I would not allow an "interruption" in the middle of a full-attack routine using a readied action.

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm not sure I'd allow the triggering action of the result of an action, but only on the attempt, thus avoiding this whole problem.

That becomes bizarre, I think. If I ready an action to attack the first person who comes bustin' through that door, and Glarb the orc runs up to the door attempting to bust through it, but he trips and falls on his face before reaching the door, is my readied action lost? What if he slams into the door and fails to break it down?

In fact, in my example above, technically I wouldn't even be able to attack Fritz, the orc behind Glarb who successfully beats down the door: my readied action goes off immediately before he busts through the door, and at that point, he's got 100% cover from my attack.

I think that in some cases, readied actions must go off subsequent to their triggers. Otherwise, there's a broad array of sensible readied action triggers (e.g., "comes bustin' through that door") that become impossible to perform, for really silly reasons.

Daniel

 

[AGGEMAM]

If I understand what you're saying here, in my second example, you agree that Liza's readied invisibility spell occurs after Bob's first attack but before his second attack. Am I understanding you correctly?

No, not excately, an action has to be over.

If Bob after the first attack decides to attack again, then it is a full-round action and after that the ready triggers if Bob in his full-attack action failed even once.

If Bob after the first attack decides to do something else than attacking, then the attack action is over, and failed, and readied action triggers.

 

[Artoomis]

That becomes bizarre, I think. If I ready an action to attack the first person who comes bustin' through that door, and Glarb the orc runs up to the door attempting to bust through it, but he trips and falls on his face before reaching the door, is my readied action lost? What if he slams into the door and fails to break it down?

In fact, in my example above, technically I wouldn't even be able to attack Fritz, the orc behind Glarb who successfully beats down the door: my readied action goes off immediately before he busts through the door, and at that point, he's got 100% cover from my attack.

I think that in some cases, readied actions must go off subsequent to their triggers. Otherwise, there's a broad array of sensible readied action triggers (e.g., "comes bustin' through that door") that become impossible to perform, for really silly reasons.

Daniel

If you wait to act based upon a completed action (when the orc breaks through the door), then you should not use a readied action, in most cases. You should using DELAY, and act right after that creature, with your full actions instead of only a partial action.

EDIT: Remember, a readied action is designed to interrupt an action, not act after it.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I'm sure AGGEMAM will say you misunderstand - because a single attack as part of a full-attack action is not an action in and of itself.

Thus, AGGEMAM proposed making the readied action occur after the triggered action (teh full-attack), since it was based upon a completed action's results.

Not a bad way to go, really. I would not allow an "interruption" in the middle of a full-attack routine using a readied action.

LOL ... you wrote it before I did.

 

[Artoomis]

LOL ... you wrote it before I did.

Spooky, ain't it?

 

[Pielorinho]

No, not excately, an action has to be over.

If Bob after the first attack decides to attack again, then it is a full-round action and after that the ready triggers.

If Bob after the first attack decides to do something else than attacking, then the action is over and readied action triggers.

Again, I don't think this is tenable. Here's two examples:

1) Bob attacks and misses, moves 5', and attacks again. According to you, the readied action goes off after his second attack.
2) Bob attacks and misses, moves 5', moves another 25'. If I understand you correctly, the readied action goes off as soon as he moves the first 5' of his 30' movement.

So Liza's reflexes catch him immediately on his movement in #2, but not on his movement in #1? Doesn't make sense to me.

Even if we *do* buy this explanation, though, riddle me this: does the ogre get an Attack of Opportunity on Bob in example #2?

 

[doktorstick]

No, not excately, an action has to be over.

As stated, that is patently false. A standard action is an "action", but a readied action can occur during a standard aciton. Heck, it can even occur during the move portion of a standard action.

Alice readies an action to swing at Bob if Bob enters her threatened square. Bob starts his standard action by moving next to Alice. Alice swings. But wait! Bob isn't done moving. He continues to move next to Corwin and then attacks Corwin. (Alice holds her AoO for later--just to make things simple.)

What happened? The ready action interrupted the standard action of which was a "move + attack". The ready action interrupted the move portion of the standard action. Unless this is an invalid example, then I do not see how a readied action cannot interrupt a full-attack action if it can interrupt a standard action and a move-portion of an action.

/ds

 

[AGGEMAM]

1) Bob attacks and misses, moves 5', and attacks again. According to you, the readied action goes off after his second attack.

Correct.

2) Bob attacks and misses, moves 5', moves another 25'. If I understand you correctly, the readied action goes off as soon as he moves the first 5' of his 30' movement.

Actually before the first 5' of movement.

So Liza's reflexes catch him immediately on his movement in #2, but not on his movement in #1? Doesn't make sense to me.

Okay, maybe that is because you think that an attack is the result of a single swing. And perhaps you believe that everything in round comes in turns, while in reality all the actions of everyone in a round happens within the same 6 seconds. Have you ever wondered why the actions you can make on your turn is what could reasonably do in 6 seconds and that a entire combat round is 6 seconds.

Even if we *do* buy this explanation, though, riddle me this: does the ogre get an Attack of Opportunity on Bob in example #2?

No, he is invisible when he starts to move.

 

[AGGEMAM]

As stated, that is patently false.

Since you obviously did not read the above posts I was replying to, I will not bother to comment.