D&D (2024) Speculation on the next UA in April


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Pauln6

Hero
I play a LOT of rogues and while I never found that dilemma to be frustrating, I never found it to be interesting, either. OTOH, As a DM, I have had to remind rogue players that they couldn't disengage after attacking with two weapons. (Many of my players are either less experienced with the game or just more... casual about the rules than I am). I'd rather not have to do that. YMMV.
For me, it's more of a case that there are different classic rogue archetypes that should all be equally playable and therefore equally common. If dual wielding has no opportunity cost, will there ever be any circumstance in which a player would not play a dual wielding rogue? Any other archetypes could be dead in the water.

Most people can't disengage after attacking once, let alone twice, although swashbuckler rogues or those with the mobile feat could still do both I suppose. If you mix too many colours together though, you just end up with everything being brown.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
For me, it's more of a case that there are different classic rogue archetypes that should all be equally playable and therefore equally common. If dual wielding has no opportunity cost, will there ever be any circumstance in which a player would not play a dual wielding rogue? Any other archetypes could be dead in the water.

Most people can't disengage after attacking once, let alone twice, although swashbuckler rogues or those with the mobile feat could still do both I suppose. If you mix too many colours together though, you just end up with everything being brown.
I... really don't see that being the case here, but I get your concern. It would help if they could wield two handed weapons (oh no! so broken! /s) or had something else to do with an empty off-hand (filch?).

Honestly, if there's anything threatening your 'other archetypes', I think you'll find it's lack of support for THEM, not a tiny boost to dual-wielding.
 

Pauln6

Hero
I... really don't see that being the case here, but I get your concern. It would help if they could wield two handed weapons (oh no! so broken! /s) or had something else to do with an empty off-hand (filch?).

Honestly, if there's anything threatening your 'other archetypes', I think you'll find it's lack of support for THEM, not a tiny boost to dual-wielding.
As someone who has been playing for 30+ years, I think this edition does a great job of representing many different 'classic' types of rogue. While I agree that you could give added support to other archetypes, I'm not sure what form that could or should take. I don't see people complaining about the rogue in general - it's one of the more popular classes and great fun to play. Similarly, I have seen plenty of dual-wielding rogues, even at the cost of the bonus action, which suggests to me that the cost does not always outweigh the benefit. It's more a case that dual-wielding rogue players would rather avoid the cost. The death of the single dagger sneaky rogue would be a shame.

On the other hand, fighters don't seem to benefit that much from dual wielding. If they can widen the gap and the various pros and cons for the basic combat styles for fighters, I think there would be more mileage in that than giving rogues a boost.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
But OVERSIZED WEAPONS!!!!
  • Archery
  • Defense
  • Dueling
  • Great Weapon Fighting
  • Protection
  • Two Weapon Fighting

Advanced Fighting Styles
  • Close Quarter Fighting
  • Combat Superiority
  • Combat Agility
  • Monkey Grip
  • Phalanx Fighting
  • Quick Draw Fighting
  • Tempest
  • Zen Archery
I’ve no problem with advanced fighting styles, but I think it’s place to be careful.
I... really don't see that being the case here, but I get your concern. It would help if they could wield two handed weapons (oh no! so broken! /s) or had something else to do with an empty off-hand (filch?).

Honestly, if there's anything threatening your 'other archetypes', I think you'll find it's lack of support for THEM, not a tiny boost to dual-wielding.
Agreed. Giving rogues a benefit to having a free hand vs dual wielding vs using a bow would really open the class up for the people who can’t help but try to win character creation.
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
I don't care if my rogue can dual weild but if the ranger doesn't get that ability then I will be more than a little upset.

I honestly don't care if the Rogue can dual-wield either. I just think that the mechanics for dual-wielding is unnecessarily fussy and I find the current OneD&D version to be more elegant.

Myself, I've only talked about the Rogue here because I don't think it's a big deal to let them have it. But you're right: The Ranger practically needs it. (Though I suppose it would be easy enough to throw the Weapon Mastery version onto the Ranger the same way that they get Fighting Style Feats.)
 

I... really don't see that being the case here, but I get your concern. It would help if they could wield two handed weapons (oh no! so broken! /s) or had something else to do with an empty off-hand (filch?).

Honestly, if there's anything threatening your 'other archetypes', I think you'll find it's lack of support for THEM, not a tiny boost to dual-wielding.
this is what I mean, most rogues are using short swords or knife as concept, so there is no cost to just adding a second one. RIght now somewhere around half maybe a little less then half the rouges I see wield two weapons, and when they do they have to choose how to spend that bonus action. If this goes through I expext 90% or more of rouges to fight with 2 light weapons.

Last night it was brought up that my bestie played an armor artificer with the two weapon feat and was tripple thunder punching and by the new rule that would allow them to do this AND cast a bonus action spell or use bonus action to give themselves temp HP. That is aa big buff we had not even thought of until now.


edit to add she was using bonus action to make an extra attack before she got the feat, but I forgot it was fighting style: two weapon is the exact name... I forgot there was another feat CALLLED two weapon fighting
 


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