Why hate 3eR before it comes out?

[Zaruthustran]

You may not really be a mean guy, but you do one hell of a imitation of one. Honestly what's with all the insults in this and many other threads about 3.5.(yes very hypocritical of me 1 sentence before) Both sides have their notable twits, some like 3.5, some don't but can we try to keep it civil perhaps.

You're right: I have been laying it on a bit thick. I'm frustrated that my fellow gamers can't or won't keep an open mind, and instead seem to just throw up their hands and bemoan any change without thinking it through.

Yeah, I'm angry that folks are angry, and respond with anger. Pretty absurd.

The intent of those posts is not so much "You're dumb!" as "No, my friend--this will be cool! Here's why!"; the mean language was meant to shock/shame the person to reconsider (or simply consider) the real reasoning behind and effects of the revision. Kind of like one buddy saying to another "Come on, you big jerk--don't just give up! Go after her/it!" You know, guy talk.

But intent is impossible to convey in msg boards. I'll lay off--what we don't need is more negativity.

-z, thinking he went overboard in defense of 3E(r)

 

[Dark Jezter]

Re: Re: Why hate 3eR before it comes out?

Because it _seems_ like they are changing things that don't need to be changed.

And yes, it is useful to complain about these changes. If there is enough uproar now we may be able to prevent some rules that should be optional.

What changes would you deem unnessecary? It seems to me that WotC is changing rules that need changing. People have been complaining about the Ranger since 3E came out, and it looks like it's finally going to get a fix. Druids, sorcerers, and monks are also supposedly getting some much-needed changes.

Or is this about Damage Reduction? I actually find the new system for DR intruiging, it eliminates the cases of "Don't bother fighting this monster unless you have a magical weapon" that would occasionally pop up during battles.

And on to my final point, every rule is optional. It's very common practice among RPGers to modify or even completely disregard rules that they don't like. When 3.5 comes out, you can expect some people to use classic 3E rules, some people to use 3.5E rules, and some people to use their own blend of 3E and 3.5E rules.

So, you can raise an uproar about WotC changing rules that you don't think you should be changed, but I doubt that they'll hear you, because it definately sounds like you're in the minority.

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

Re: Re: Why hate 3eR before it comes out?

Because it _seems_ like they are changing things that don't need to be changed.

And yes, it is useful to complain about these changes. If there is enough uproar now we may be able to prevent some rules that should be optional.

Point 1: opinion. there are plenty of people who disagree with you.

Point 2: I'm going to say this once. All of the rules are optional. If you don't want to use them, then don't. Spending hours on end complaining in internet message boards accomplishes nothing.

-F

Edit: dangit, Jezter... you beat me by all of 30 seconds

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Re: Re: Why hate 3eR before it comes out?

Point 1: opinion. there are plenty of people who disagree with you.

Point 2: I'm going to say this once. All of the rules are optional. If you don't want to use them, then don't. Spending hours on end complaining in internet message boards accomplishes nothing.

-F

Edit: dangit, Jezter... you beat me by all of 30 seconds

point 1 duh. That doesn't change the fact that some people are against some of the changes and should voice their opinion on the matter. How some people have delivered their message of dislike has been moronic on occasion, but still if you odn't like the rule you should say something about it.

Point 2. right back at you. Why should the people currently dissenting be the ones who have to suck it up and change the rules. Maybe we can change some of the rules before they are printed so you'll have to be the house rule monkey. This rules are optional, no one is forcing you to use them, no D&D police will come etc diatribes are just lame. If its a crap rule(opiniopns can vary) its a crap rule, and the fact that people can rule 0, not use them, etc doesn't fix the fact that it is a crap rule.

 

[ced1106]

One of the head-scratchers I had about AD&D was how there was only **one** Magic Missle spell, **one** stat block for an orc, or **one** type of Cursed Backbiter spell. Why is it that in fantasy literature there are all sorts of different variations of similar magic, while in AD&D there can only be **one** definitive version? Sure, we need definitive combat rules and whatnot. But, as GM, if two spells, classes, monsters, or items are different but still similar, no big deal. You can cast a 3e fireball and he can cast a 3.5e one.

I'm sure they'll kill that orc, regardless of which edition.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

I am all for 3.5E and will gladly throw down my 100.00 plus on the spot to own them. At the very least 3.5E might limit the amount of threads titled as follows:

1. Rangers got the shaft
2. Bards go the shaft
3. Sorcerers got the shaft

4. Harm is broken
no it's not
yes it is
no it's not

5. Haste is broken
no it's not
yes it is
no it's not

Probably not, but I can hope.

The thing that kills me is that people have been complaining ever since the release of 3E that certain rules need to be changed, and now that WOTC is doing it they are portrayed as money grubbing bastards. I guess there is just a certain portion of the populace that you cannot please no matter what.

Dirge

 

[Shard O'Glase]

The thing that kills me is that people have been complaining ever since the release of 3E that certain rules need to be changed, and now that WOTC is doing it they are portrayed as money grubbing bastards. I guess there is just a certain portion of the populace that you cannot please no matter what.

Dirge

The money grubbing thing is jsut silly. As specific rules come out though if I don't like them i wil voice my disagreement. Take Haste, eys it needed a fix, I just think their fix sucks in that the new haste spell had better be downgraded to elvel two because its too weak for a level 3 spell by far. I could care less if they ever add a extra spell action spell into the game. Also I felt their reasining sucked, quicken spell feat blows on its own accord irrelevent of the existence of haste.

I don't like the DR issue, see that issue for good reasons why.

The new pit fiend, isn't CR16 IMO, and I'm concerned about the higher SR. If more creatures get a SR boost it makes spell penetration and its greater version a virtual requirment in which case they shouldn't be feats but class abilities of the pure spell casters.

edit to add and yeah I'm happily dishing out the cash for it unless all the rules releases I dislike. Though I think I'm more looking forward to arcana unearthed.

 

[drothgery]

FWIW, I'll probably get a revised PH, but keep my original DMG and MM. It seems like almost all of the rule changes will be in the PH, and I just don't use the other two books all that often.

 

[EarthsShadow]

omg this is pathetic

wow, from what I have read, and this is a no brainer really, is that some people are never happy with anything and all they like to do is complain. WotC changed AD&D to D&D3e (dropping the stupid advanced part) and there was an uproar, but when it was released and people actually saw it for what it was, then people became rational and decided either they liked it, or didn't, and played whatever edition they prefer.

Unfortunately, after the fact, yes WotC did deliver a good product, it wasn't the best they could do, and they even admitted it to us. So, they decided to release a revised version. Now, it seems that only D&D players really complain when there is a revision to their game. I've been on many boards for many different games, and for most of the other ones when there is a change by god everyone seems happy that the company is caring enough to actually revise it and make it better, but with D&D all WotC has ever gotten was complaint after complaint, despite the fact that if they didn't do what they did, we wouldn't be gaming in this fashion and we all would be stuck with what TSR left us as its final legacy. Which would you prefer? Figure it out, make the choice, and stick with it.

So, WotC has listened to us, and is making a revised edition, taking into consideration what we as gamers have proposed and complained to them. What do they get? Crap thrown at them because they decided to do a revised edition.

So, to get all the revised stuff, you shell out 90 bucks, so what. If you dont' want to buy it, then don't buy it. If you choose to buy it, then buy it but don't complain. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is forcing you to use those rules. Accept the decision and live with it, whatever the decision will be. Accept their decision for revising the rules. It was bound to happen anyways with all the talk the last few months with what we all would like to see in a 4th edition and all those threads, which was a clue that many weren't happy with 3rd edition as it is now.

If you dont' want to spend the money, get the SRD version. So what if it costs a few dollars, instead of thinking of it costing you money, think of it as saving you 80 dollars if you would have had to buy the books from the store.

The point of this is for many to open their eyes, and their minds, and either play what you want to play, accept the decision that has been made because WotC is not going to change their mind, or stop playing this game and find something else because those that are always complaining are obviously not happy with D&D and should find another game to play.

You are gamers, you are supposed to have imaginations, the ability to visualize fake worlds and play fake characters in a fake reality. But, you complain, and complain, and complain because the rules aren't a certain way, or they wrote things in a stupid order, or whatever the reasons people come up with. So many of you are so negative its no wonder this world is the way it is. Get over it, either accept their decision to do a revised edition, or don't accept it and find something else. If you want to complain, then express yourselves in a rational manner, not any of this 'I don't like it because its going to cost me 30 bucks' crap. It will cost you 30 bucks, or 90 bucks for DM's, only if you choose to fork over the dough. Once you make the choice, live with it and move on. All the reasons i have heard as for why people hate the upcoming 3.5edition game, which is 6 months out, are pretty pathetic reasons.

WotC is a business, it wants to make money, and its going to. So, it is releasing a revised edition. Big deal. Use the edition you want to use, its that simple. Spend the money if you choose to spend it, and if you do spend it, don't complain. Accept the system, or change what you want, offer suggestions, and no police force is going to force you to do anything.

I guess, in the end, there is no pleasing some people, no matter what is done with the game. If you aren't happy with the game, ask yourselves why you play it, and if you are happy with it, that is just awesome.