D&D General Why Isn't There a D&D Table Top Miniatures War Game?

[Bluenose]

What would they sell? Rules, well not only do they have no real experience with miniature wargame rules in house but there's already a load of rulesets out in the wild. Miniatures, well there's loads of those too including some very suspiciously "D&D Monster-a-like" creations. And the brand alone isn't that special in tabletop wargame circles (and for that matter computer games) as it is in tRPGs. Not like they're Games Workshop.

As for GW games being collected but not played, when some tournaments have 200+ players turn up, no it's not just something people collect rather than play with. Den of Fools on Youtube is very heavy into the meta and win rates/army builds but also reports on the number of tournaments and players it events.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My cousin told me most of players choose Warhammer because to find players of other wargames is more difficult.

If you want to paint miniatures, then the option is to buy Hero Quest. If you want to play wargames, then the RTS videogames are the option.

Other companies have tried to sell their own miniatures wargames, and they haven't survived.

The D&D wargame would be too hard to be designed with the right power balance if main champions can defeat complete squads as if it was a musou videogame.

Even with the help of a tablet the battle would be too slow for the TTRPGs standars.

 

[nevin]

The site I posted earlier only did the old monster manuals that were under OGL and some stuff from pathfinder that pathfinder said was ok for individual use but not commercial. they should all be legal for use.

 

[nevin]

I think this is the nail on the head right here. The overlap between RPG and TT battles is small. While D&D grew out of TT play, they're essentially separate and appeal to mostly different groups. Yes, there's some overlaps, but there's also some overlap between people who play D&D and who go bowling*. The overlap isn't that big, and its why TSR/WotC never put a big investment into it - they knew their main market, the RPGers, weren't going to be that interested and time/money spent on a TT game is design time/money not spent on the RPG.

* Back in the day, during 2E, one of the groups I played with did Tuesday night bowling. Your bowling score x 10 was XP you got to add to your character. The DM subtracted his score (split among all players) from the total - we had 7-8 players. We usually played 3 games of bowling, and my personal average was about 139 (I was the DM), second best in the group.

Another variable in the diference between the two is ranged warfare. tabletop embraces it for the smart move it is and D&D actively attempts to push players to face to face melee distance. It's very much an Anime vs History channel vibe that doesn't really cross over well.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

IMO the pre-painted miniatures version suffered because of the use of randomized packs, and because of fairly horrid miniatures. A few were OK. Many were quite bad. For a while it seemed to capture some players, but it didn’t last.

Nowadays, there are a couple of skirmish games. The ones that I hear about most lately are several from Games Workshop and Warmachine, and I see Malafeux in the gaming stores. Sadly, Confrontation seems long gone.

TomB

The random packs were never the problem. The random packs were amazing, sold great, and led to being able to grab a common orc/skeleton/etc for a quarter on ebay. It was when they listened to the people yowling for non-random packs that the whole thing fell apart. Now stores had to buy more unicorn packs to get more of the dragon/demon ones. The junkers started pegwarming and stores were stuck with old product that never happened in prior releases. Manufacturing costs in China also rose significantly, and they cut corners, resulting in the poorer sculpts with the breadstick looking rounded swords and weird waxy paint.

 

[MGibster]

I spent about three years organizing events and demos of cool non-GW games at the local store. None of them could break the GW hold on the vast majority of players, not even Warmachines.

I can point to all sorts of miniatures war games I've played over the years that failed. One of the reason I went back to Warhammer was because I was confident knowing I'd still be able to play it five years from now.

Warzone (Mutant Chronicles universe)
Clan War (Legend of the Five Rings)
Babylon 5 Wars
Battletech (this one made a come back)
Chronopia
Great Rail Wars
Crimson Skies
Gear Krieg
Renegade Legion
Star Wars: Legion (still produced, but hard to find players in my area)

Those are many of the game I've owned over the years that are no longer produced (save Battletech).

Warmachines by Privateer Press was eating up the competitive GW Fantasy players for a while but it fizzled after five years. Now GW games are the only ones played at our FLAGS.

For a few years, Warmachine was pretty popular in my area. As soon as I bought it everyone stopped playing it. Maybe it's me?

 

[MGibster]

As for GW games being collected but not played, when some tournaments have 200+ players turn up, no it's not just something people collect rather than play with. Den of Fools on Youtube is very heavy into the meta and win rates/army builds but also reports on the number of tournaments and players it events.

We're not arguing nobody plays GW games. Just that the more people purchase the models to paint with than play the game. I think GW is perfectly aware of this and it's one of the reasons producing quality game rules isn't a priority for them.

 

[payn]

I can point to all sorts of miniatures war games I've played over the years that failed. One of the reason I went back to Warhammer was because I was confident knowing I'd still be able to play it five years from now.

Warzone (Mutant Chronicles universe)
Clan War (Legend of the Five Rings)
Babylon 5 Wars
Battletech (this one made a come back)
Chronopia
Great Rail Wars
Crimson Skies
Gear Krieg
Renegade Legion
Star Wars: Legion (still produced, but hard to find players in my area)

Those are many of the game I've owned over the years that are no longer produced (save Battletech).

For a few years, Warmachine was pretty popular in my area. As soon as I bought it everyone stopped playing it. Maybe it's me?

I think one of the big advantages BT has is a video game line that never seems to die either. Plenty of crossover happening there.

 

[Stormonu]

For a few years, Warmachine was pretty popular in my area. As soon as I bought it everyone stopped playing it. Maybe it's me?

HA! I bought a WHFB High Elves army 3 months before End Times dropped. Got to play them once, while they were still just primer white, before everyone else sold off their army.

Spoiler

This was actually my second attempt at WHFB. My first attempt was back in the 90's, with High Elves. My first game was against a "black orc" army where my cavalry charged and did only 3 wounds (which were saved against) and nothing in my army could hurt my opponent's "invincible" general, who in turn proceeded to wipe out my entire force. Less than a month later, I sold the army. Didn't come back until my brother was gushing to me about how much fun he was having with his Tomb King army and that I should give it another go....
[\spoiler]

 

[The Soloist]

I can point to all sorts of miniatures war games I've played over the years that failed. One of the reason I went back to Warhammer was because I was confident knowing I'd still be able to play it five years from now.

Warzone (Mutant Chronicles universe)
Clan War (Legend of the Five Rings)
Babylon 5 Wars
Battletech (this one made a come back)
Chronopia
Great Rail Wars
Crimson Skies
Gear Krieg
Renegade Legion
Star Wars: Legion (still produced, but hard to find players in my area)

Those are many of the game I've owned over the years that are no longer produced (save Battletech).

For a few years, Warmachine was pretty popular in my area. As soon as I bought it everyone stopped playing it. Maybe it's me?

We played:
Free Boosters Fate
Pulp City
Batman
Malifaux
Dark Age CMON
Infinity
Saga Dark Age
Beyond the Gate of Antares (ugly models, bad rules)