Time for Ceramic DM? (judge-free commentary thread NO JUDGES ALLOWED AS OF NOW :) )

[Noskov]

A good story, but it could be even better, if only you wouldn't have had to write it in 72 hours. As Zhaneel said, that's the fate of Ceramic DM entries.

Thanks for the comments.

Really, it all came down to emitting stuff because of a lack of time. I knew when they ask me to fill in, I'd only have 12 hours to dedicate to this if I were lucky (and that was assuming I would get a chance to work on it while at work). It came down to me getting 8 hours to do it and the first 4 were on a story that was completely scrapped (except for 2 lines that made it into the second story).

I honestly wasn't that happy with the end product. I did like the idea behind the story and the connectivity between the pictures, but I was not happy with the content, dialog and overall writing.

 

[Zhaneel]

BSF's story

Very interesting. I have notes about the story and now realize I didn't note much about the picture usage. Which means, to me, they were so well integrated that I didn't think about them. Let's see, the bird pic was excellently used. Very morbid, very well done. Loved the multiple useage.

The giraffe pic was essential to the story and well done. Umm... the meat/fish pic was okay. Not really essential, but an established series of events. The shadows was almost a throw-away, though I'm sure it was responsible for spawning the story. It was just so incidental and the Dr. immediately forgot it.

Okay, picture commentary done. I thought this was a little slow in gearing up. The interesting character isn't the doctor, who we learn almost nothing about, but Darren Yu. I wanted Darren there sooner.

Hot Button Alert: I'm a chemist. So seeing chemical accidents reference will get my ire up. Pampa did happen, but from what I could learn on a quick Google search was that the explosion didn't cause any deaths, which is at odds with the town being deserted. It seemed to me on my searching that the town was still alive and well. Maybe that is incorrect (you live closer) but if it is true that the town is still there, I would suggest being more careful in the description 'cause the story as it stands could piss off any chemists in the area or who were involved. There was a seperate suit against a chemical firm there for toxic waste leakage, in the 90s, but I don't think that is what you are referencing. Okay, soapbox being return to storage.

The Druid/rain thing reminded me of the rainmaker story from the last contest, which I think was one of your stories, IIRC. Was that on purpose?

I really think the Dr. came across stupid. He should have cared more about the mind reading. He should have guessed the nuke test, not WWII since most educated Americans [especially someone of that age] should know 1945 was the year of the bomb, even if they don't know if it was the test or the dropping.

I really wanted more direct info on Lou. I think this would be much better told from Darren's POV than the Dr.'s. Then we could see and interact with Lou.

A chilly ending [what is with you guys and the deadly bad stuff this round!?!?] and nice use of the connection. I do wonder how the magic of his death from beyond the grave or whatever worked.

Zhaneel

 

[BSF]

BSF's story

Very interesting. I have notes about the story and now realize I didn't note much about the picture usage. Which means, to me, they were so well integrated that I didn't think about them. Let's see, the bird pic was excellently used. Very morbid, very well done. Loved the multiple useage.

Thanks! The bird was my primary "issue". Seeing it, I couldn't get the image of an angel out of my mind. I tried three different ways to work a story in with that image. I took a chance on the multiple usage. Normally I would say it twice, but use it once. But, using the image twice just felt "right". In this case I decided to go with my gut.

The giraffe pic was essential to the story and well done. Umm... the meat/fish pic was okay. Not really essential, but an established series of events. The shadows was almost a throw-away, though I'm sure it was responsible for spawning the story. It was just so incidental and the Dr. immediately forgot it.

*nod* Good point. I was trying to work the doctor's refusal to acknowledge Lou as part of the story - Delusional. Maybe I tried to be too light with it? I will definitely give that some thought.

Okay, picture commentary done. I thought this was a little slow in gearing up. The interesting character isn't the doctor, who we learn almost nothing about, but Darren Yu. I wanted Darren there sooner.

Guilty! You should have seen the dreck I cut out to get Darren there as soon as I did. Unfortunately, I needed to do the writing to get my state of mind where it needed to be. But, more editing might have allowed story flow to come sooner.

Hot Button Alert: I'm a chemist. So seeing chemical accidents reference will get my ire up. Pampa did happen, but from what I could learn on a quick Google search was that the explosion didn't cause any deaths, which is at odds with the town being deserted. It seemed to me on my searching that the town was still alive and well. Maybe that is incorrect (you live closer) but if it is true that the town is still there, I would suggest being more careful in the description 'cause the story as it stands could piss off any chemists in the area or who were involved. There was a seperate suit against a chemical firm there for toxic waste leakage, in the 90s, but I don't think that is what you are referencing. Okay, soapbox being return to storage.

Fair enough. I will make a little commentary just because.

I've been through Pampa on my way to the Celanese plant there. We had a location in the plant that I had to cut-over a network connection for. Very odd place for me. I had to go through all the safety videos, I had to wear a hard hat, I had to have long pants and steel-toed boots. I learned the sirens they use for the different emergencies. It's been over a year, so I would need to take a refresher safety course if I were ever to go back. This was odd to me. Keeping in mind that my father worked for Sandia National Labs, on Kirtland Air Force base, it wasn't as if I never had to think about things like that. It was just so different.

Part of that difference was driving through the town of Pampa. It was spooky because I was expecting to find a few buildings. Maybe a general store or a gas station. Maybe a little cafe. But, there was nothing. I asked the guy I was working with about it and he told me about the explosion and how all the structures were damaged and Celanese just bought the structures and the land. Inside the plant, they have a little wall with some information on it. It was an interesting read. I'm sure there are still people living there. I think they still have a post office building. But the only landmarks I saw from the time I entered Pampa to the time I left was the Celanese plant, the stop sign on the road out of the Celanese plant, and a grain silo. Weird!

Then I got back to Albuquerque and I decided to look it up on the net the next day. Nothing! I could talk to people that remembered the event. I talked to people that remembered hearing about the explosion. But, I couldn't find very much on the net. I could find other related explosions that seemed to be on the same scale, but nothing substantial about Pampa. It kind of bothered me. Maybe there was something subconscious for a story there?

As I recall, there were two people that died in that explosion. It was a Sunday afternoon and there weren't many people working that day. Overall, it was a "good" accident because there was very little loss of life.

The Druid/rain thing reminded me of the rainmaker story from the last contest, which I think was one of your stories, IIRC. Was that on purpose?

Yes it was. Very much so in fact. It was the third idea that came to me. Se below for more of my thoughts on that.

I really think the Dr. came across stupid. He should have cared more about the mind reading. He should have guessed the nuke test, not WWII since most educated Americans [especially someone of that age] should know 1945 was the year of the bomb, even if they don't know if it was the test or the dropping.

I think the doctor came across as flat and not the brightest bulb out there. I realized it as I finished the story and it wasn't entirely my intent. Though, Darren is certainly not the smartest character out there either.

Oddly enough, I did an informal poll after I posted the story. Most of my co-workers remembered that WWII was happening then. None of them could peg that July 16, 1945 was when we first tested the bomb. I am beginning to wonder if there is some social commentary to be had here. For the record, I had to lookup what day we tested the bomb. So, I am no better. (Or maybe it is a commentary on public education in New Mexico?)

I really wanted more direct info on Lou. I think this would be much better told from Darren's POV than the Dr.'s. Then we could see and interact with Lou.

Really? Cool, I will keep that in mind. It would be a different direction for me to explore.

A chilly ending [what is with you guys and the deadly bad stuff this round!?!?] and nice use of the connection. I do wonder how the magic of his death from beyond the grave or whatever worked.

Zhaneel

Huh - I hadn't even considered that as part of the story. Now you are making me think I didn't go far enough. Interesting.

I wanted a kind of a dueling perspective on what is real and who is deluding themselves. I wanted the reader to get done and maybe ponder whether Darren was right, or whether he was just a wack case who strung together disparate circumstances to make a big, magical conspiracy. (The Doctor certainly went with that theory.) I wanted a moral question if you accept that there are people using magic that could end drought. If you killed those that opposed such a noble goal, are you evil? Is there a relative morality? And if you saw the links to Rainmaker, you might see how even a noble goal might be twisted to serve base greed. There are definitely ties to Rainmaker in Delusional! The two stories are very much related, but I am hoping that maybe Delusional has enough to stand on it's own.

As for the morbid tone, I blame the pile of meat and the bird corpse. It's hard not to look at those two pics and not feel somewhat morbid. Before the pics came out, I was wondering if I could write a decent story dealing with the human experience of Love. Not anything very romantic/erotic, just something that kind of had that feel good feeling with a very human story. That would be a different type of story for me to write.

 

[Macbeth]

Before the pics came out, I was wondering if I could write a decent story dealing with the human experience of Love. Not anything very romantic/erotic, just something that kind of had that feel good feeling with a very human story. That would be a different type of story for me to write.

I've been wanting to do something like that for a while. I wanted to try it druing the last 2 rounds of the last competition, and I almost did in the finals. I wanted to do it in the first round this time, but those pictures just said "FLOOD" to me, and so I started playing with the idea of Noah...

 

[BSF]

*laugh*

Just wait Macbeth. This will come back to haunt us. The next time we end up paired off, there will be some delicious pics that we both look at and think "Oooh! I can try that concept now." We will both write similar stories and everyone will think "WTF? Where did that come from?"

 

[BSF]

Orchid Blossom's Journey's

Wow, nifty little story. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I thought the picture use was pretty good. The one that struck me as most incongruous was the man stepping in front of the jeep. However, you integrated that pic well. It was just the presentation and posture of the pic that made it seem a little incongruous. At the same time, I am not sure you would have had the character at all if it weren't for the pic.

I know you said you had a tough time with the robot. I still liked the feel of it though. It came across as a wacky little project that was used to impress potential investors so they could get working on the real stuff they wanted to do.

I can't help but feel a little cheated. I wanted more story. You have an easy tone that I am able to sit down and get comfortable with quickly. It would be quite easy to read a lot more depth without it feeling forced. In fact, I feel like I am reading a prologue to how techno-magic robots suddenly became a big industry. This feels like the "how it started" type thing. Implied histories and implied futures that could be woven into a larger story down the road. As a result, the end of the story seems artificially short to me. This might be a reflection on the 72 hour time limit. However, if you ever said you were writing a novel and this had been the prologue, I would be eagerly awaiting the real story that was coming down the line.

 

[Noskov]

I just have to say...


Macbeth's userpic


is the mutha eFFing


SCHIZ


NIZZLE


I've been wanting to comment on that for months now.




Thank you.

 

[orchid blossom]

Wow, nifty little story. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I thought the picture use was pretty good. The one that struck me as most incongruous was the man stepping in front of the jeep. However, you integrated that pic well. It was just the presentation and posture of the pic that made it seem a little incongruous. At the same time, I am not sure you would have had the character at all if it weren't for the pic.

I agree here. Yes, the guy would not be there at all if not for the pic. I originally had some very different ideas where that pic was more important. However, when my brain finally flashed on the final idea it didn't fit as well. I had a hard time working it in smoothly (which I don't feel I did, and now of course I just thought of a way to make that smoother if not more important. lol) In end I hoped that the occurence being a catalyst for Jeanelle to show the hurt side would make it at least notable if not as important as it should be.

I know you said you had a tough time with the robot. I still liked the feel of it though. It came across as a wacky little project that was used to impress potential investors so they could get working on the real stuff they wanted to do.

The thing I end up doing with the pictures I just can't seem to integrate is try to turn it around and base the story on them. I was laughing when I saw the tires at the shoulders. I couldn't think of any reason for them to be there unless it was..... A Transformer! And who doesn't love a transformer?

I can't help but feel a little cheated. I wanted more story. You have an easy tone that I am able to sit down and get comfortable with quickly. It would be quite easy to read a lot more depth without it feeling forced. In fact, I feel like I am reading a prologue to how techno-magic robots suddenly became a big industry. This feels like the "how it started" type thing. Implied histories and implied futures that could be woven into a larger story down the road. As a result, the end of the story seems artificially short to me. This might be a reflection on the 72 hour time limit. However, if you ever said you were writing a novel and this had been the prologue, I would be eagerly awaiting the real story that was coming down the line.

The implied histories was done completely on purpose. I have a tendency to meander in writing and to want to preach (i.e. explain everything) to the reader. It makes for long, boring stories. So when I signed up for this, I made my first rule "No Preaching!" It's a handy rule, and it's tightened up my writing considerably. Plus it forces me to slide in the necessary information without a lot of author's exposition.

I agree about the end as well. I was finishing up on Monday night (ok, I started and finished on Monday night, lol) and I didn't like that ending. I knew that the goal of the story had been accomplished. Devon just took the first all important step to forgiving himself and accepting the whole messy world. Now I had to get out of this story. The no preaching rule said no expounding on the moral/theme. I was stuck with the abrupt ending, which I didn't like, and anything a bit longer I tried to write seemed totally unecessary. I haven't solved that one yet.

Anyway, thanks for your kind comments, I'm glad you enjoyed my quiet little story.

 

[Berandor]

Rodrigo Istalindir, Sacrifice:
Generally, I really liked the story. I always like it when fantastical elements and the "real world" are mixed, so the appearance of a were-shark was a cool surprise. Picture use was fine, I think. The rocks/turtle eggs could have been excised from the story without much ado, but the other pics were used better. The shark and the cave were especially central.
In the end, I would have liked a more "Hollywood" ending better, so that the little girl comes to life again when brought into the sea, but that's alright. At least the sharks go hunting

BardStephenFox, Delusional: A fine entry imo, and a stab at environmentalists I wasn't too clear about the correlation between Yu dying and the weather company opening, but otherwise I liked what you did with the pictures. It seems that save for the "shadow-horns", you put a different spin on each of them.
Having the meat be human meat with some fish thrown in as cover was great, and the "Angel of Death" was a cool use for a cool pic. It's fortunate the body was dead for too long, so the druids left it hanging in the fence
I enjoyed the relationship between the killer and the demon; it was nice how Yu reacted to some things the Dr. only thought. In the end, I was left wondering whether Darren was a good guy or a bad guy; I think that's what you tried to achieve, so my hat's off - that's a difficult thing to achieve in three days.

Francisca, Agent Keady:
I can't help but feel a little let down by this story. For one, I thought the fight/finale was over a little too quick; even though her final words were fine (inspired by a Meta thread? ), it all ended in three very short paragraphs, so it wasn't really a tense moment for me.
Otherwise, the story is fine. So why am I feeling let down? I think the pictures weren't used very good, that's why. I think none of the pictures were used really well. It almost seemed as if you'd just ported a story over to a circus environment to make them fit.
"After the beatles": That could have been a good use, but the killer's employ of animals at the killing site isn't brought up again. Maybe Atanasia could have ripped apart an animal before jumping at Keady? That would have resolved that issue as well as given him more time to escape his bounds.
"Dinner": This pic is just in because they go fishing. Why do they go fishing? I don't know. They just go fishing, and there happens to be a pile of chum lying around.
"me and my shadow": this pic is really just a throwaway. I liked that you tied your story in with former works, but to a reader of this story, the horned shadow isn't really important. And you seem to realize it, too, because you forget the pic as soon as you used it. Perhaps you could have focused on it for a paragraph or two, with a more detailed flashback to Keady's former experiences? Have time stretch, and the moment before Keady recognizes the helmet for what it is might become a tense moment in the story.
"taall women": Atanasia wears a costume. For about one paragraph, she is half woman, half giraffe. And then, she's wearing a short black dress, and the costume's forgotten.
I really liked the story, but I fear the pictures weren't your forte, this time.

ETA: O.k., after re-reading my comments on Francisca's story, I hope they're not too harsh. I just know you can do better, is all.

 

[BSF]

BardStephenFox, Delusional: A fine entry imo, and a stab at environmentalists I wasn't too clear about the correlation between Yu dying and the weather company opening, but otherwise I liked what you did with the pictures. It seems that save for the "shadow-horns", you put a different spin on each of them.
Having the meat be human meat with some fish thrown in as cover was great, and the "Angel of Death" was a cool use for a cool pic. It's fortunate the body was dead for too long, so the druids left it hanging in the fence
I enjoyed the relationship between the killer and the demon; it was nice how Yu reacted to some things the Dr. only thought. In the end, I was left wondering whether Darren was a good guy or a bad guy; I think that's what you tried to achieve, so my hat's off - that's a difficult thing to achieve in three days.

Thanks! I am finding it most interesting to read the comments because it is really showing me where I left things open to interpretation. I dig that you are not sure if Darren is a good guy or a bad guy. I wanted that to be something the reader could decide. There are things in the story that I wasn't sure I wanted to write answers to. I wasn't sure if I should, or not. It is something I am keenly pondering.

I am also glad you liked the pic usage. I remember reading the first Ceramic DM I stumbled across, last October. I especially remember watching Piratecat get nailed for a weak pic usage. (I also remember watching Mythago take down our furry friend in that last showdown.) I decided that if I were going to give it a shot, I wanted to try to find strong pic usage every single time.

Not that I always succeed, but it is always high in my mind. It's tough because sometimes the pics are so far out there and your mind just won't wrap itself around it. It is one of the things I enjoy about Ceramic DM, trying to find a story in those disparate suggestions. It is always fun to see how somebody else wove the pics into a story, and I think knowing that somebody else is also trying to wrap their minds around the same pics you are makes it easier to keep going when you feel stuck.