22 classes: What are the successful ones?

[fletch137]

Looking at my Player's Handbook II, I see a heap of classes I've never played or even seen played. There's 22 in all, including the four classes introduced in PHB2, and I'm curious how all these classes rate against each other.

In y'all's experience, which of these classes do the best at meeting the intent of the class. Fer instance, the Beguiler looks to be a sort of illusionist/rogue. Does it do a better job at that than a multi-classed illusionist/rogue? Is a Knight a better war leader than a Marshall?

For the record, the 22 classes listed in PHB2 are:

Barbarian
Bard
Beguiler
Cleric
Dragon Shaman
Druid
Duskblade
Favored Soul
Fighter
Hexblade
Knight
Marshal
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Scout
Sorcerer
Swashbuckler
Warlock
Warmage
Wizard

 

[delericho]

That's a somewhat odd list, containing as it does some but not all of the classes introduced in the "Complete..." books. It also doesn't include the Psionics classes, nor the Artificer from Eberron. Or the Factorum, of course, but that's excusable as I believe it post-dates PHB2.

As for whether a class is 'successful' or not, I couldn't really say - I've very rarely allowed anything beyond the PHB1 (oh, and XPH and the Artificer). And every time, without exception, I have regretted it.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

If success is thought of as mechanical power assuming moderate optimization, then there's already a thread on that. http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php/topic,640.0.html. It got ported over, so the formatting needs work, but the thought exercise is fairly good in my eyes.

Going down the list:

Barbarian (Tier 4)
Bard (Tier 3)
Beguiler (Tier 3)
Cleric (Tier 1)
Dragon Shaman (not noted, but usually regarded as Tier 4/5 IIRC)
Druid (Tier 1)
Duskblade (Tier 3/4)
Favored Soul (Tier 2)
Fighter (Tier 5. 4 with Zhentarium variant and/or dungeoncrasher variant up to level 6)
Hexblade (Tier 4/5)
Knight (Tier 5)
Marshal (Tier 4)
Monk (Tier 5)
Paladin (Tier 5)
Ranger (Tier 4)
Rogue (Tier 4)
Scout (Tier 4)
Sorcerer (Tier 2)
Swashbuckler (Tier 5)
Warlock (Tier 3/4)
Warmage (Tier 4)
Wizard (Tier 1)

Most people regard Tiers 3 or 4 as the sweet spots since they have enough power and versatility to do pretty well but don't tend to cause undue problems with reasonable players unless they're taken to an extreme. Or the DM can't wrap his head around some of the concepts, but that's a different discussion than mechanical ability even if they're sometimes related. Tiers 5 and 6 tend to be viewed as mechanical failures. Fighter, Hexblade, Knight, Monk, Paladin, and Swashbuckler all tend to have problems when looked at from a numerical standpoint.

To answer your questions in more detail: the Beguiler performs about as well as a multiclass illusionist/rogue depending on what traits one looks at. It's quite a fun class to play actually.

The Knight simply fails to be an effective leader because the only things it can do for party members are grant an extra save against a fear effect and take a couple hits for the team here and there. Its other abilities are fairly crappy and disjointed. For example, it gets Mounted Combat as a bonus feat but doesn't actually have any class features that help it to be more than mediocre at that role. If one wanted a class that can be an effective leader, the Bard tends to be the first thought about but other classes like the Marshal from the Miniatures Handbook, and the Crusader or Warblade from Tome of Battle. Full casters like the Cleric, Wizard, and Druid can do it too thanks to the huge versatility of spells.

 

[Dandu]

Allow me.

Barbarian - Yes
Bard - Yes, but you need a splatbook or two.
Beguiler - Yes
Cleric -Yes
Dragon Shaman - No
Druid - Yes
Duskblade -Yes
Favored Soul -Yes
Fighter - Almost
Hexblade - No
Knight - No
Marshal - No
Monk - Please
Paladin - No
Ranger - Yes
Rogue - Yes
Scout - Yes
Sorcerer - Yes
Swashbuckler - No
Warlock - Yes
Warmage - Yes, but inferior to a blasting Sorcerer if all options are open. Possibly still inferior if the Sorcerer only uses the PHB.
Wizard - Yes

 

[sheadunne]

My 2 cents on whether the class is any good (at least for me)

Barbarian - Almost (Rage needs to work better)
Bard - Almost (Class abilities need work)
Beguiler - No (Just play a rogue/illusionist)
Cleric - Yes (Still my favorite)
Dragon Shaman - No (Should have been a prestige class)
Druid - Yes (Even with the jumbled wild shape changes)
Duskblade - Almost (Spell list needs to be improved and the errata ignored)
Favored Soul - Yes (If you've got the time to cast spells, you're the top fighter)
Fighter - Almost (Needs a few class abilities)
Hexblade - No (Failed)
Knight - No (Give the class abilities to the Paladin)
Marshal - Almost (Needs more tweaking and improved class abilities, probably still better off playing a cleric or bard)
Monk - No (always disappointing no matter how hard I try)
Paladin - Almost (Needs refined class abilities)
Ranger - Almost (Needs to be blended with the scout)
Rogue - Yes (but only if you can maximize the number of times you can sneak)
Scout - Almost (Needs to be blended with the ranger)
Sorcerer - Yes (although second to the wizard. I don't like them because they're a race not a class)
Swashbuckler - Almost (needs to at least multiclass with Rogue and it helps to have a few levels of conjuration-teleportation wizard)
Warlock - Yes (but isn't a very interesting class to play)
Warmage - Almost (Needs some tweaking)
Wizard - Yes (versatility rules and it just kept getting better with each book)

 

[Dozen]

These are just opinions:


Barbarian - Hell, Yes
Bard - Kinda, more books and PrCs help a lot
Beguiler - Yes
Cleric -Hell, Yes
Dragon Shaman - Ehh, not exactly
Druid -Hell, Yes
Duskblade -Yes
Favored Soul -Yes, If you're smart about it
Fighter - Definitely not without optimization
Hexblade - Not really
Knight - Kinda at low levels, no in the long run
Marshal - Verrry borderline okay
Monk - Heh, nope.
Paladin - Not happenin'. Too much work.
Ranger - Yes
Rogue - Yes; coulda have gone better though
Scout - Very much so
Sorcerer -Hell, Yes
Swashbuckler - Monks at least have nice flavor
Warlock - From Yes to Hell, Yes
Warmage - Yes
Wizard - Why are you asking?

Mind that classes that have the worst of it standalone may still make for good multiclass or gestalt options.

 

[Stormonu]

What if you only consider the class to 10th level, does that change their "success"?

 

[Grogg of the North]

Did you have fun playing said class? Then its successful.

 

[Dozen]

Did you have fun playing said class? Then its successful.

That's a wonderful answer in most cases, but not universally applicable. Take your time with first posts in the future. He may not regard it as offensive, but you're disrespecting the OP when you assume he misunderstands the point of playing a game just because he asked a technical question. Which you didn't read. Otherwise you'd know he didn't play at least some of these classes. I've played an Expert before, and had fun with the bugger; that doesn't mean I can't tell or see use of figuring out which class is better at whatever it's supposed to be doing.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Did you have fun playing said class? Then its successful.

That's a wonderful answer in most cases, but not universally applicable.

I gotta disagree. Just depends on how you define success. The OP judged success on "which of these classes do the best at meeting the intent of the class?" And when judging "best", subjectively, then I think "Fun" is also okay. People in the thread seem to be judging "most powerful", as far as I can tell, and that isn't what he asked for, either. And that's too bad. As always, play what you like