D&D 5E Warlocks and high level play

[Celtavian]

It seems as if they intentionally made the evil options amazing and the good options lame. Sprite and Pseudodragon vs Imp and Qausit? Really?

The Sprite can be good. It can turn invisible and do a sleep arrow every other round with advantage. Invisibility at will is very powerful.

I agree the evil options are much better. It is kind of annoying that the evil options are so much better than the good options. I have no idea why the game designers make these kinds of choices. Sometimes it feels like the designers say, "Can't let players have options they can actually use without making an evil character effective because that would be too good." I don't get that thinking myself. Why not make the pseudodragon and sprite equally effective to the imp and quasit? Why not give good non-evil options to PCs? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Yeah, it is annoying that the good options aren't as good as the evil options.

That being said, the rules actually say that the warlock has those forms available to his familiar, but they don't seem to change that his familiar is a celestial, fey, or fiend spirit that takes on specific forms. You can change your familiar's form by casting find familiar again. So you can apparently have a celestial spirit familiar that you can change into the form of an imp. I'm not sure how alignment would work with that, since a non-Pact of the Chain familiar has no alignment listed (but since all the forms it can take are unaligned, one would presume that it is it's alignment) for precedent.

As a DM, I'd probably rule that the Pact of the Chain warlock sets the familiar's alignment when he first summons it, based on the form he initially gives it. I'd also require imps, sprites, and quasits, if the initial form, to be the correct type of spirit. After that, I suppose they could take whatever form you want and retain the alignment they came with. That's a ruling though. As written, it seems most likely that they keep whatever spirit type they are summoned with and have the alignment of their current form. So LE celestial imps are possible.

 

[EroGaki]

Yeah, it is annoying that the good options aren't as good as the evil options.

That being said, the rules actually say that the warlock has those forms available to his familiar, but they don't seem to change that his familiar is a celestial, fey, or fiend spirit that takes on specific forms. You can change your familiar's form by casting find familiar again. So you can apparently have a celestial spirit familiar that you can change into the form of an imp. I'm not sure how alignment would work with that, since a non-Pact of the Chain familiar has no alignment listed (but since all the forms it can take are unaligned, one would presume that it is it's alignment) for precedent.

As a DM, I'd probably rule that the Pact of the Chain warlock sets the familiar's alignment when he first summons it, based on the form he initially gives it. I'd also require imps, sprites, and quasits, if the initial form, to be the correct type of spirit. After that, I suppose they could take whatever form you want and retain the alignment they came with. That's a ruling though. As written, it seems most likely that they keep whatever spirit type they are summoned with and have the alignment of their current form. So LE celestial imps are possible.

It's been that way since 3.5. All of the evil options were better than the good ones. It honestly reached the point that half the pc's either started out evil or converted after awhile just so they could have nice things.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think I've always hesitated rolling up a warlock because of the limited spell slots. Yes, they regain them on a short rest, but I don't like relying on the DM's good graces for the necessary time; my DM in particular is fond of the "race against time" adventure,, where the clock is ticking and we have to rush from one nightmare to the next.

Playing a warlock would feel like having one elixir in a Final Fantasy game; I never used it, because I feared wasting it when it on something minor, only to have a boss show up. I can see myself never casting anything but cantrips, because I'd be afraid of using my only two slots, and then have something bigger show up before the party could rest.

On the other hand, you could run a Warlock PC as the guy who always uses up his spells quickly. Any time he sees what he thinks is a lieutenant, he casts a spell. That way, regardless of short rests, he is always using his spells on what appears to be semi-tough foes.

The REST of the party is there to take out the bosses in those cases where the Warlock does not have any spells available. In those cases, the Warlock's job is to cast cantrips.

In other words, you are worrying about the wrong thing (i.e. saving resources). The very fact that the Warlock is using a spell when he does means that he is saving the resources of the rest of the party. Those other saved party resources are the ones then being used to take out bosses.


Yes, a lot of players want to play a PC who has the perfect spell available to "save the day" at the appropriate time, but if 5E has taught me anything, it's that there are dozens of ways to skin a cat. If the Warlock uses his spells in the first encounter to more quickly take out the foes, then in the second encounter, the Cleric still has his Spirit Guardians spell to help take out the boss because the Cleric did not cast that spell in the first encounter.

 

[Leugren]

The Sprite can be good. It can turn invisible and do a sleep arrow every other round with advantage. Invisibility at will is very powerful.

By RAW, a familiar cannot make attacks (PHB p. 240: "A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal").

 

[KarinsDad]

(And anyone who cares more about balance than I do might want to reject the official ruling on magic missile to keep the evoker from leaving all other casters behind in damage.)

Agreed. WotC never ran the numbers on that particular (subpar) ruling.

 

[Celtavian]

By RAW, a familiar cannot make attacks (PHB p. 240: "A familiar can't attack, but it can take other actions as normal").

A warlock familiar can if the warlock gives up his attack to do so.

 

[EroGaki]

A warlock familiar can if the warlock gives up his attack to do so.

Though I don't imagine people do it that often; the attcks of teh familiar are fairly subpar, and even the status effects are easy to overcome.

 

[EroGaki]

So, Mystic Arcanum. That more than anything worries me. They seem rather...bad. Once per day abilities from a very limited list, hence very little customization.

Were I to play a warlock, I would be half tempted to stop once I hit level 10 or so, and start leveling in sorcerer or something.

 

[Gadget]

So, Mystic Arcanum. That more than anything worries me. They seem rather...bad. Once per day abilities from a very limited list, hence very little customization.

Were I to play a warlock, I would be half tempted to stop once I hit level 10 or so, and start leveling in sorcerer or something.

Well, to be fair, most other spell casters have very limited access to high level spell slots in this edition as well, so the 'once a day thing' is not really that much of a hindrance. The reduced selection is a limiting factor, but you do get some pretty good options on the list that, IIRC, are generally effective and widely applicable to most campaigns. It's not like you're stuck with Instant Summons or some such. It is also worth noting that your spell slots are always at the highest level you can cast, so you are getting a fair number of 5th level spell slots per short rest at higher levels.

I always had the impression that the Warlock was supposed to rely on Eldritch Blast (modified by appropriate Invocations when available) for round to round damage, with the spell slots used largely for Utility and battlefield control. That may change at higher levels though.