D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[Fenris-77]

Smaller pewpew bigger BOOMS. That's the answer for full casters.

In the case of the cleric, some class abilities that index melee might be appropriate, possibly reducing the extra BOOM necessary to balance things out.

 

[Bawylie]

I’d say the opposite, this goes much too far, IMO, creating new problems that don’t need to exist.

Still, there are interesting things involved, so I plan on treating it as a + thread.

That’s fair.

I’ll refrain from criticism and just lurk it.

 

[Stoutstien]

I thought about it, but fixing spells is much broader exercise. Dumping spells into a spreadsheet and changing some flags around is a lot more my speed.

Very true.
An odd thought I had about all cantrips is to keep the situational effect ones like ray of frost just remove the damage portion.
Produce flame could mimic a torch with 1 fire damage as an option.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

For the ''other'' classes, once we get there (so no rush), this is what I'd do

Bard: Arcane magic and can use all Enchantment spells no matter the spell list, can learn rituals from all list (jack of all trades and everything). OR All 3 list, but only Enchantment, Divination and Illusion and Conjuration spells.

Ranger: Druidid Magic + expended spell list (1 per spell level up to level 5) as the more recent archetypes.

Paladin: Divine magic + oath spells (2 per spell level up to level 5)

Artificer: Arcane + expended spell list

Sorcerer: All 3 lists. OR All 3 lists but only Evocation, Abjuration, Transmutation and Necromancy.

Warlock: Arcane, but with eldritch blast as a class feature and ''hex'' X time per day without slot and without concentration at higher level (ala class variant ranger's Favored Foe)

 

[Tony Vargas]

I would probably very much default to more of those spells going on the arcane list based on the number of class abilities that Clerics and Druids get.

Also, as they're meant to be support classes, they shouldn't have too many or too-distracting ego-gratification (flashy/powerful/whatever) spells competing for the slots they'll need to turn things around for their party when the going gets tough.

Unless, of course, the basics of class role/identity like that are also up for re-consideration?

 

[TwoSix]

That’s fair.

I’ll refrain from criticism and just lurk it.

No worries; just knowing you're there silently judging feels like going home.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That’s fair.

I’ll refrain from criticism and just lurk it.

I'll keep my eyes open for you.

Very true.
An odd thought I had about all cantrips is to keep the situational effect ones like ray of frost just remove the damage portion.
Produce flame could mimic a torch with 1 fire damage as an option.

I liked that idea with Produce Flame myself, and perhaps it will make it back in eventually, but for now I (at least) want to keep any damage out of the cantrips in accordance with lowkey13 and TwoSix's concept.

For the ''other'' classes, once we get there (so no rush), this is what I'd do

Bard: Arcane magic and can use all Enchantment spells no matter the spell list, can learn rituals from all list (jack of all trades and everything). OR All 3 list, but only Enchantment, Divination and Illusion and Conjuration spells.

Ranger: Druidid Magic + expended spell list (1 per spell level up to level 5) as the more recent archetypes.

Paladin: Divine magic + oath spells (2 per spell level up to level 5)

Artificer: Arcane + expended spell list

Sorcerer: All 3 lists. OR All 3 lists but only Evocation, Abjuration, Transmutation and Necromancy.

Warlock: Arcane, but with eldritch blast as a class feature and ''hex'' X time per day without slot and without concentration at higher level (ala class variant ranger's Favored Foe)

Please keep this in mind for when we get to them, I can see some potential here and thanks!

Also, as they're meant to be support classes, they shouldn't have too many or too-distracting ego-gratification (flashy/powerful/whatever) spells competing for the slots they'll need to turn things around for their party when the going gets tough.

Unless, of course, the basics of class role/identity like that are also up for re-consideration?

@Fenris-77 makes a very good point, and it is one of the reasons why I am not completely OCD on keeping the lists even. I gave it a lot of the thought last night myself and do believe Wizards should be the spellcasting King/Queens of the game. They don't really get much, and although their strength lies a lot in utility, the number of prepared spells limits them and requires resting time to prepare different spells as needed. I have a lot of ideas, but that is for later.

As far as the class role/identity, I don't think we should stray too far from them, but a little latitude will probably be needed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

UPDATE: I have added 2nd Level spells to the OP. Looking forward to peoples' thoughts on the beginning lists and discussion points.

 

[Tony Vargas]

As far as the class role/identity, I don't think we should stray too far from them, but a little latitude will probably be needed.

Going back to the early game:

Clerics: healing/restoring, buffing (Prayer/Chant), with a occasional flashes of control (Command), and blasting waiting to higher level (Flame Strike et al). Even though the classic cleric had 7 spell levels, his 7th level spells were exceedingly powerful.
Bottom line: Support.

Wizard: no healing, at all, period; lots of blasting (damaging spells at every level) and control (Sleep, Charm, &c) from level one on, game-changing utility starting as early as level 3 (invisibility), moar spells, more variety of spells, just more, more, more - all heavily restricted, hard to manage, and on a fragile character dependent upon smart play.
Bottom line: Advanced class for advanced players. (Oh, yeah, spells: Blasting/Control/Utility)

Druid: Between the two. Situational control from 1st on (Entangle). Healing kicks in at 2nd (CLW, goodberry), blasting at 3rd (class level & spell level, the druid progression was aberrant). Thematic emphasis on Fire in particular, other elements, and on nature & associated - plants, summoning/controlling animals and woodland supernatural creatures.
Bottom line: primarily thematic Support/Blasting/Situational


There are certainly spells that speak very strongly to a class, typically because they've been a best-/game-changer spell for their level, or been exclusive to that class, or at least started out so.

 

[Minigiant]

I think one of the things we might have to eventually do when making these list is deciding which of the spells on the list are locked down, which ones are possible subclass, and which ones are available to be poached by other classes.

Because the last thing we want is to convert samey lists to forced ones.

For example
Condom of Arrow and Find Steed don't match any of the big three at all. Placing them in any of these classes feels very forced.