D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Tony Vargas]

Behold the gospel of DnD wherein it states "You need a 16 in your main stat at level one or your character is trash!"

 

[Micah Sweet]

View attachment 298944

Easy to do with many rolling methods, if you agree with Gygax.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not what I mean. I want the game to write out all the skill specific actions and attendant DCs, without reference to a scaling difficulty by level or generic DC table.

Closest I’ve seen is Star Wars Saga Edition.

I personally hated it, because it meant that GMs felt obligated to say no to reasonable actions, some of which would end up included in later books!

I think you could avoid that by constructing the skills structure differently, though.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Not what I mean. I want the game to write out all the skill specific actions and attendant DCs, without reference to a scaling difficulty by level or generic DC table.

So, you chose your handle advisedly, then.

 

[Minigiant]

Bologna. CharOp was positing the necessity before the game was even published, and had the same mindset during 4e and 3.5.

Salami!

There will always be powergamers.

Powergaming only becomes the default when the default incentives it.

If everything in 5e had 13 AC, DC 10, and a few dozen HP, people would not feel like they need high stats.

But 5e quickly becomes full of HP sponges and the ad-hoc DC for moderate tasks is a coin flipping DC 15.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Salami!

There will always be powergamers.

Powergaming only becomes the default when the default incentives it.

If everything in 5e had 13 AC, DC 10, and a few dozen HP, people would not feel like they need high stats.

But 5e quickly becomes full of HP sponges and the ad-hoc DC for moderate tasks is a coin flipping DC 15.

Just nope. It has nothing to do with the difficulty. 5e as standard is super easy. It is a common complaint. Some people simply have to have the best possible score, no matter what that number might be, and how much you actually need it.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Just like 5E's success isn't solely because of Stranger Things

Not solely of course, but 5e did arrive in a good period to go more mainstream.

Stranger Things, Community, Game of Thrones, super hero movies and comics considered cooler and more mainstream, some celebrities saying they play and the word getting out through social media, streaming, etc.

I'm not going to try to estimate how much that effected success or not but think it had some effect.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Powergaming only becomes the default when the default incentives it.

A game would have to offer literally no choices, or, on the other extreme, be perfectly balanced, to avoid incentivizing powergaming.

Optimization is inevitable. A game that tried very hard to stay balanced might minimize the rewards for system mastery, such that obsessive systems masters and casuals could play at the same table with minimal issues. I've never seen a game like that, but theoretically.

On the other extreme, a game that set out to build in rewards for system mastery, intentionally, could so overshoot the mark that optimization becomes the life's blood if it's community.

 

[Scribe]

If everything in 5e had 13 AC, DC 10, and a few dozen HP, people would not feel like they need high stats.

Only if there was no challenge, because improvement didnt matter. AKA: DC checks at 5.

I honestly cannot fathom how a person in the year of our lord 2023, would think that 'people would not feel they need high stats'.

Gamers optimize. Especially younger ones.

 

[Minigiant]

Just nope. It has nothing to do with the difficulty. 5e as standard is super easy. It is a common complaint. Some people simply have to have the best possible score, no matter what that number might be, and how much you actually need it.

Ayup.

5e is easy. It's easy because groups don't run 6-8 encounters and therefore can burn resources to boost their attack rolls or to straight up bypass rolls.

And if your DM hands out magic items, oh baby.