TaranTheWanderer
Legend
It says we don’t need to have the item. It’s weird. In which case, how are you doing the research? After rereading the bastions, A lot of the research stuff is similar.
AtG Howling Crag (5e PBP) OOC
- Thread starter FitzTheRuke
- Start date
@FitzTheRuke
@TaranTheWanderer
I noticed the issue with overlap, etc. Before my hiatus, I was thinking of just designing different bastions (the ones in the DMG are listed as "examples" and are not exclusive) for the chapel, graveyard, and pub.* When I get the chance and before my February hiatus, I'll take a pass at designing alternatives for them so we don't have this issue.
Notes- first, this won't be retroactive but forward-looking. The first declaration will stand in order to reduce confusion.
Second, I will use the approximate abilities of other bastions as a gauge and post the explanation with the design. I'll put it here, and that way Fitz can approve it and if anyone else sees an issue they can chime in.
Does that work?
*Not the gaming hall- it is what it is.
@TaranTheWanderer
I noticed the issue with overlap, etc. Before my hiatus, I was thinking of just designing different bastions (the ones in the DMG are listed as "examples" and are not exclusive) for the chapel, graveyard, and pub.* When I get the chance and before my February hiatus, I'll take a pass at designing alternatives for them so we don't have this issue.
Notes- first, this won't be retroactive but forward-looking. The first declaration will stand in order to reduce confusion.
Second, I will use the approximate abilities of other bastions as a gauge and post the explanation with the design. I'll put it here, and that way Fitz can approve it and if anyone else sees an issue they can chime in.
Does that work?
*Not the gaming hall- it is what it is.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
Technically, the pub is current events and lets you track down the location of a person. Which seems appropriate with what Fitz wrote regarding the refugees. There’s lots of similarities between the other info gathering bastions.
And the Chapel is just the library, no? So, I don't see much of an overlap there.
Archive: level 13 - Useful Lore. A casting of Legend Lore
Library: Topical Lore: A Legend a known event or Location, a person of significance, a type of creature or famous object.
Pub: Information Gathering All current events within 10 miles or the location of any creature familiar to you within 50 miles. (spies)
Trophy Room: Lore A legend, any kind of creature or a famous object. The topic need not be directly related to items on display in the room, as the trophies provide clues to research a wide variety of other subjects.
There's a lot of overlap between trophy room and Library. The Library seems to do everything the Trophy room does but includes events, locations and people. I wonder if it's like one is knowl. history/arcana while the other is knowl. Nature/survival/history.
I have a few ideas for the chapel and the graveyard. Having the chapel just as a reskinned library worked for a first idea for it, but it doesn't seem quite true to what it should be . I'll put a new chapel idea up shortly.
The graveyard is much more problematic. As phantom rogue isn't a 5e24 base class, I gave Doc levels in Assassin, but ... poison just doesn't seem to match his style. I put a lot of poison-centric stuff, but I am having a lot of trouble with that part. It just doesn't work for his personality. Doc might be a killer, but there is a twisted law he follows.
The pub I am playing with, but will keep the core information-gathering component as it makes sense. Don't want (no matter what level) to have a "potion brewing" part because that seems (pardon the bluntness) stupid. That's the one that will either stay the same or be lightly changed.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I'm okay with all this. Like all D&D rules, the Bastion system is best used as a start, and as basic guidelines, for us to come up with our own thing. Maybe moreso, because it is "young" as a ruleset, and not (IMO) particularly well though-out. It's okay (certainly worth trying out at least) but it's going to need tweaking and iterating into the future.
Thoughts on these ideas? @FitzTheRuke @TaranTheWanderer
At everyone else?
1. Gaming Hall. Per rules. Unchanged.
2. Bar. Slightly modified.
Research: Information Gathering. (Modified from Pub's- no spies)
When Doc is in the area, he spends time at the bar, seeing the comings and goings of all sorts of folk. When he is not in the area, Pikus watches over the bar and observes the people going through. As drinks flow, lips loosen, and people talk about all sorts of things; hopes and dreams, fears and desperation. If Pikus or Doc are paying attention, they learn two (2) true things and one (1) half-true (or completely true but also misleading) thing that is relevant to whatever Doc is looking for information on.
The three things are determined by the DM, and there is no ability to determine which one is half-true. While some information can be discerned about almost anything, no information will be provided about things that are clearly impossible to find out from this type of research (e.g., extra-planar information, where an individual hid an item only known to that person, and so on).
It takes Pikus seven days to gather the information, or Doc seven days drinking there, to learn the information.
Trade: Drinkin' & Smokin'. (Added instead of potions)
The bar operates as normal, making money from the patrons over seven days. Pikus also gets Doc some more smoking material. Because of the costs of Doc drinking and smoking and the money going back into the Tor, the Bar produces only 100gp.
Notes: Changed information gathering as I don't think there will be spies- just watching the people coming through. I like adding the slight uncertainty as well- you can't always trust what you see and hear at a bar, after all. Finally, it is a bar and should make money. I took the brewers' amount (400gp) and thought, "That's wholesale, but Doc needs a steady supply of smokes and drinks a lot and he probably gives cheap drinks to the locals, so 100gp for seven days seems right?"
3. Graveyard. COMPLETETLY CHANGED.
Harvest Souls: The graveyard is a repository of angry souls that the Sheriff hasn't brought to the Mesa of Madness... yet. When the Harvest command is issued, Jesse will extract two (2) angry souls for Doc. The work takes seven days and costs no money. Angry souls can be channeled and attached to Doc's bullets; a bullet with an angry soul attached will fly off and hit a target within 30' of the target of the bullet, screaming and burrowing into the soul of the target and inflicting 4d6 damage psychic damage the first round , 2d6 psychic damage the second round (save for half) and d6 psychic damage the third round (save for no damage).
Notes- This makes so much more sense than poison to me. It is a combination of the prior ability from the Phantom Rogue with an idea I had while reading about the burning condition. I think it is balanced since it's only two bullets (not recharge per rest) but LMK what y'all think because I couldn't find anything that was quite the same.
3. Sheriff's Chapel. COMPLETELY CHANGED
Gift: Doc can beseech the Sheriff for a specific gift. Doc will ask Wyatt to beseech the Sheriff, and the Sheriff will provide a gift to Doc. The rules for the gift are the same as for craft: magic item (under Arcane Study) and Doc must spend the money on things the Sheriff wants and wait a time equal to the requirements.
Orders: Doc can ask that the Sheriff provide orders; if the Sheriff responds, it will be on the seventh day, and Doc will be provided with advantage on two saving throws (randomly determined, roll d6, reroll duplicates). However, the orders are binding on Doc and must be followed (see geas).
Whispers of the Mesa Command: The Chapel allows those with a special connection to the Sheriff to receive his guidance. When the Whispers command is issued, Jesse will beseech the Sheriff for his dread knowledge. The Sheriff (or the whispers from the mesa) will provide a response. The whispers of the Sheriff will manifest into knowledge in seven days, and the Sheriff will provide one piece of information that was unknown previously to Doc and that serves the Sheriff's interest. The Sheriff may or may not answer the question posed, but will provide truthful information that is at least useful to what Doc is doing. While the information will be truthful, it could also be misleading. The DM determines the information known.
Doc can beseech the Sheriff directly, and at the DM's discretion, the Sheriff may reply instantly. If this is done, the facility cannot be used again for the next seven days.
Notes- so the idea here was to make this more of a conduit for the Sheriff and Doc's main contact point*. Doc can ask for gifts (like one of the arcane study's commands) but I kept the time/money requirements the same. The orders command is powerful and borrowed from one of the meditation chamber's ability's, but I put in the geas- I don't think Doc is going to want to mess with that very much as it will require him to go after whatever the Sheriff orders (also wasn't sure if the ability is seven days or until the geas ends or... I just assume that the geas from the Sheriff cannot be broken in this case, btw). Finally, I kept the Whispers, but restricted it to one piece of information and that the Sheriff does not necessarily have to answer the question posed. Also, one piece of information will lower burden on Fitz, so there's that.
*I was going to say "Doc's main facility" but we all know that he's spending his time at the pub and gaming house.
At everyone else?
1. Gaming Hall. Per rules. Unchanged.
2. Bar. Slightly modified.
Research: Information Gathering. (Modified from Pub's- no spies)
When Doc is in the area, he spends time at the bar, seeing the comings and goings of all sorts of folk. When he is not in the area, Pikus watches over the bar and observes the people going through. As drinks flow, lips loosen, and people talk about all sorts of things; hopes and dreams, fears and desperation. If Pikus or Doc are paying attention, they learn two (2) true things and one (1) half-true (or completely true but also misleading) thing that is relevant to whatever Doc is looking for information on.
The three things are determined by the DM, and there is no ability to determine which one is half-true. While some information can be discerned about almost anything, no information will be provided about things that are clearly impossible to find out from this type of research (e.g., extra-planar information, where an individual hid an item only known to that person, and so on).
It takes Pikus seven days to gather the information, or Doc seven days drinking there, to learn the information.
Trade: Drinkin' & Smokin'. (Added instead of potions)
The bar operates as normal, making money from the patrons over seven days. Pikus also gets Doc some more smoking material. Because of the costs of Doc drinking and smoking and the money going back into the Tor, the Bar produces only 100gp.
Notes: Changed information gathering as I don't think there will be spies- just watching the people coming through. I like adding the slight uncertainty as well- you can't always trust what you see and hear at a bar, after all. Finally, it is a bar and should make money. I took the brewers' amount (400gp) and thought, "That's wholesale, but Doc needs a steady supply of smokes and drinks a lot and he probably gives cheap drinks to the locals, so 100gp for seven days seems right?"
3. Graveyard. COMPLETETLY CHANGED.
Harvest Souls: The graveyard is a repository of angry souls that the Sheriff hasn't brought to the Mesa of Madness... yet. When the Harvest command is issued, Jesse will extract two (2) angry souls for Doc. The work takes seven days and costs no money. Angry souls can be channeled and attached to Doc's bullets; a bullet with an angry soul attached will fly off and hit a target within 30' of the target of the bullet, screaming and burrowing into the soul of the target and inflicting 4d6 damage psychic damage the first round , 2d6 psychic damage the second round (save for half) and d6 psychic damage the third round (save for no damage).
Notes- This makes so much more sense than poison to me. It is a combination of the prior ability from the Phantom Rogue with an idea I had while reading about the burning condition. I think it is balanced since it's only two bullets (not recharge per rest) but LMK what y'all think because I couldn't find anything that was quite the same.
3. Sheriff's Chapel. COMPLETELY CHANGED
Gift: Doc can beseech the Sheriff for a specific gift. Doc will ask Wyatt to beseech the Sheriff, and the Sheriff will provide a gift to Doc. The rules for the gift are the same as for craft: magic item (under Arcane Study) and Doc must spend the money on things the Sheriff wants and wait a time equal to the requirements.
Orders: Doc can ask that the Sheriff provide orders; if the Sheriff responds, it will be on the seventh day, and Doc will be provided with advantage on two saving throws (randomly determined, roll d6, reroll duplicates). However, the orders are binding on Doc and must be followed (see geas).
Whispers of the Mesa Command: The Chapel allows those with a special connection to the Sheriff to receive his guidance. When the Whispers command is issued, Jesse will beseech the Sheriff for his dread knowledge. The Sheriff (or the whispers from the mesa) will provide a response. The whispers of the Sheriff will manifest into knowledge in seven days, and the Sheriff will provide one piece of information that was unknown previously to Doc and that serves the Sheriff's interest. The Sheriff may or may not answer the question posed, but will provide truthful information that is at least useful to what Doc is doing. While the information will be truthful, it could also be misleading. The DM determines the information known.
Doc can beseech the Sheriff directly, and at the DM's discretion, the Sheriff may reply instantly. If this is done, the facility cannot be used again for the next seven days.
Notes- so the idea here was to make this more of a conduit for the Sheriff and Doc's main contact point*. Doc can ask for gifts (like one of the arcane study's commands) but I kept the time/money requirements the same. The orders command is powerful and borrowed from one of the meditation chamber's ability's, but I put in the geas- I don't think Doc is going to want to mess with that very much as it will require him to go after whatever the Sheriff orders (also wasn't sure if the ability is seven days or until the geas ends or... I just assume that the geas from the Sheriff cannot be broken in this case, btw). Finally, I kept the Whispers, but restricted it to one piece of information and that the Sheriff does not necessarily have to answer the question posed. Also, one piece of information will lower burden on Fitz, so there's that.
*I was going to say "Doc's main facility" but we all know that he's spending his time at the pub and gaming house.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
So I was thinking for the Trophy Room its a place to keep Waythe and any other magic treasures Kahru and others find. So the 'facts' could be stuff that Waythe would be aware of, from before Kahru took her from the Steading or anywhere in its history.
Maybe info about who brewed any magic item (eg the jug with the blue potions?)
Generall facts about the surrounding area that Kahru (or his pet hawk) might have seen.
In game it could just be Waythe dropping random jibes pushing in a certain direction
Maybe info about who brewed any magic item (eg the jug with the blue potions?)
Generall facts about the surrounding area that Kahru (or his pet hawk) might have seen.
In game it could just be Waythe dropping random jibes pushing in a certain direction
FitzTheRuke
Legend
Thanks. I (perhaps strangely) didn't think of Waythe as part of the trophy room, but it works. That will help me quite a bit.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Well Waythe might be offended if we actually called her a trophy, but yup, she has her own place of honour amongst the treasures.
TaranTheWanderer
Legend
My only comment is the Orders - the advantage to a save ability. That is one of only two benefits of the meditation room and that’s a level 13 facility.
