Bastard Sword, Mighty Bows et al.

[Aaron2]

In each case I will state the premise behind by suggested rules changes.


Bastard Swords – I want to create a new category of weapons these bastards.

1-As with Weapon Finesse, granting one exotic hand-and-a-half weapon isn’t much different, from a balance perspective, than granting them all.
2-There is not a clear distinction between Exotic-as-unusual and Exotic-as-extra-training.
3-The is the slight rules wonkyness of a rogue taking EWP(Bastard Sword) and being able to use it one handed but not two-handed.

So, I suggest changing the Bastard Sword, Dwarven Waraxe, et al to One-handed Heavy weapons with a new weapon proficiency feat:

HEAVY WEAPON PROFICIENCY [GENERAL]
Your great strength allows you to use massive weapons with ease.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1, Str 13
Benefit: You may use Heavy weapons in one hand.
Normal: A character must wield a heavy weapon two handed or take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.
Special: The Strength prerequisite varies based on a character’s size. Small characters require Str 11 while Large characters require a Str 17. Add +4 to the prerequisite for each size above Large and subtract 2 for each size below Small.
A fighter may select Heavy Weapon Proficiency as one of his fighter bonus feats.

So, Heavy Weapon Proficiency allows a character to use all Heavy weapons. I added a Heavy Hammer (1d10 *2), reduced the Heavy Flail’s crit to *2 and made it a Heavy weapon. Finally, for grins, I made the Greatclub as a simple Heavy weapon.


Mighty Bows - I don’t like how Mighty Bows work for several reasons.

1-They violate the general rule of not adding Str bonus to ranged attacks.
1-Why should there be mighty bows when there are not mighty crossbows? Certainly, a crossbow can create the same force.
2-Mighty Bows don’t scale well. A Str 10 halfling should be able to do the same damage as a Str 10 human.
3-Mighty Bows (and by extension, ranged combat) are too good. Especially for giants and the like.

So, I’m suggesting changing a mighty bow to one that simply does and extra die size of damage. For example, a Mighty Longbow would do 1d10 damage. These weapons require a Str 14 to use. I picked that number because Str 14 gives +2 damage which is the same difference as between the max of 1d8 and 1d10. A Double Mighty Longbow would do 1d12 points of damage and require a Str of 18.

For changing the size of these weapons, adjust the minimum Strength up or down by 4. So a Halfling can use a Small Mighty Longbow that does 1d8 points of damage but requires a Str 10. (1d8 normal longbow -> 1d6 for small -> 1d8 for mighty).


Aaron

 

[Darklone]

Not adding Strength bonus to ranged attacks? Baad idea. Everyone would keep on using throwing weapons (who add the str bonus to damage).

Mighty bows are too good? Don't think so, with the 3.5 archer nerf.

Your change from 1d8+2 damage to 1d10 damage would lower the average damage by 1.

 

[Aaron2]

Not adding Strength bonus to ranged attacks? Baad idea. Everyone would keep on using throwing weapons (who add the str bonus to damage).

Well, thrown weapons generally have shorter range, plus without quick draw they are limited to one shot per round. So they have their own disadvantages. Also, my campaign is kinda Greek/Romanesque so I want spears and javelins to be common.

Your change from 1d8+2 damage to 1d10 damage would lower the average damage by 1.

I realize this. My original design was to increase the die size for each +2 str but I quickly ran out of dice. Someone needs to invent a d14.


Aaron

 

[Kodam]

Mighty Bows

Hi!

I think there should be mighty bows. In 3.5 even the sling adds the Str-mod! Thrown weapons use it as well. With a crossbow you don't use your own Str but a mechanical so YOUR str doesn't help.
As it is only bigger weapons have higher damage dice. Your idea is just not "in line" with the other weapons rules. A minor point perhaps but still...

2-Mighty Bows don’t scale well. A Str 10 halfling should be able to do the same damage as a Str 10 human.

I don't get this. Str 10 and a mighty bow??? Neither this human nor the halfling can even use a +1 mighty bow properly but suffers a -2 penalty to hit. And if they've Str 12 and a +1 mighty bow they both equally add +1 to their damage. What's your point?

 

[Darklone]

Actually, I always had the houserule that you can make every bow or crossbow stronger... you simply couldn't use it only with the necessary strength.

 

[CRGreathouse]

3-The is the slight rules wonkyness of a rogue taking EWP(Bastard Sword) and being able to use it one handed but not two-handed.

This just isn't true. A Medium character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it one-handed or two-handed without penalty. (A Small character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it two-handed without penalty.)

 

[Aaron2]

With a crossbow you don't use your own Str but a mechanical so YOUR str doesn't help.

Mechanically, I can create a crossbow that has a significantly stronger pull than any bow a human can use. Why does a +4 mighty longbow do more damage than this more powerful crossbow? As said before, if you could make mighty crossbows, I probably would never have gone down the road I did.

As it is only bigger weapons have higher damage dice. Your idea is just not "in line" with the other weapons rules. A minor point perhaps but still...

A longbow has a higher die than a shortbow. A Bastard sword has higher die than a longsword. Same with javelins vs. darts. Actually, what there isn't much precedence for is a weapon that has a mimimun strength requirement.

I don't get this. Str 10 and a mighty bow??? Neither this human nor the halfling can even use a +1 mighty bow properly but suffers a -2 penalty to hit. And if they've Str 12 and a +1 mighty bow they both equally add +1 to their damage. What's your point?

A Str 10 halfling with a longbow does 1d6 damage. A strength 10 human with a longbow does 1d8. The halfling should be able to use a bow that had the same pull as the human since they have the same strength. Same pull -> Same damage.

EDIT: This entire line of reasoning has got me thinking that there is something fundamental about archery that I am blissfully unaware of. I have started a topic in the general forum to discuss this. [as if you care]

Aaron

 

[Aaron2]

This just isn't true. A Medium character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it one-handed or two-handed without penalty. (A Small character with EWP (bastard sword) can use it two-handed without penalty.)

From the SRD: "A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon."

A rogue or wizard with EWP (bastard sword) doesn't have MWP so can't use it two-handed as it's a martial weapon in this case.

Where does it say that halflings can use it two-handed? Wouldn't they be using a small bastard sword with one hand?


Aaron

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

Mighty Bows - I don’t like how Mighty Bows work for several reasons.
1-They violate the general rule of not adding Str bonus to ranged attacks.
2-Why should there be mighty bows when there are not mighty crossbows? Certainly, a crossbow can create the same force.
3-Mighty Bows don’t scale well. A Str 10 halfling should be able to do the same damage as a Str 10 human.
4-Mighty Bows (and by extension, ranged combat) are too good. Especially for giants and the like.

My comments and thoughts:

1) So? Weapon finesse violates the rule that Str adds to attack in melee, etc. It is not a big deal. I have never had anyone complain that the missile weapon rules were too complex because of mighty bows.

2) Mighty crossbows? What a great idea. I'll be back with rules on them shortly (well, in a couple of days, I have other things I must get done first).

3) That is already untrue, small characters just do less damage in D&D.

4) Maybe, that depends more on campaign style than one class of items.

 

[Nifft]

From the SRD: "A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon."

A rogue or wizard with EWP (bastard sword) doesn't have MWP so can't use it two-handed as it's a martial weapon in this case.

Note that it says "can use", not "must use". If you buy proficency with the Bastard Sword, you get proficency with the Bastard Sword. Just because some classes got limited proficency for free does NOT limit those who actually paid for it.

-- N