D&D 5E Can thrown weapons be used for sneak attack damage?

[mlund]

I think Mearls hit the nail on the head. If there's no subversion of the mechanical boundaries going on there's no reason to force someone to use their short-bow or dagger to get their Sneak Attack when it would be much more germane to the scene to be throwing a hatchet, a chamber pot, a brick, or a beer stein at the back of someone's head. As long as you're not getting a mechanical advantage out of it (typically more damage) there's no reason to call "foul."

Marty Lund

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think this is a case where they kept traditional terminology for a feature that is not like it used to be, ending up causing confusion. That is, in 5e, it's not really a "sneak attack" anymore. I've long argued that using that terminology is a bad thing. It should be renamed to "precision attack" or something similar. Why? Because unlike previous editions where "sneak" was perfectly valid since you had to have surprise, 5e no longer requires that. You can add that damage simply by having an ally next to the target you're attacking.

So if you look at it like a precision attack, I don't see why you couldn't apply it to thrown weapons.

 

[Gecko85]

Relevant to the discussion: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/dagger-archery/

 

[Kikuras]

Relevant to the discussion: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/19/dagger-archery/

Interesting. After reading various sections of the PHB I had discarded my original thoughts on this subject, and had adopted the 'ranged is ranged' view, because if it's not RAW then it is STRONGLY implied. Even the blurb the creates the melee/ranged distinction confuses itself:

"Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet o f you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance."

A melee weapon, thrown, is clearly a ranged weapon?! Crawford's comment is an RAI thing, but they really dropped the ball in conveying that in the material. I'm losing faith.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Interesting. After reading various sections of the PHB I had discarded my original thoughts on this subject, and had adopted the 'ranged is ranged' view, because if it's not RAW then it is STRONGLY implied. Even the blurb the creates the melee/ranged distinction confuses itself:

"Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet o f you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance."

A melee weapon, thrown, is clearly a ranged weapon?! Crawford's comment is an RAI thing, but they really dropped the ball in conveying that in the material. I'm losing faith.

I wrote a long post on this subject (page 1 of this thread; it was last post on that page so you might have missed it).

Jeremy's answer is correct, consistent, and makes sense. A dagger is a melee weapon. It has the Thrown property, which allows you to "throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. (p 147). Note that this doesn't transform it from a melee weapon into a ranged weapon.

It's still a melee weapon. Refer to the chart on page 149. It has all the information you need.

PS: I hear what you're saying about the definitions under Weapons on page 146. The book's use of bold is key. From the PHB:

A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance.

This sentence is explaining melee weapons and ranged weapons. It's not explaining melee attacks and ranged attacks. In other words, that sentence does not say: "A weapon used to attack a target within 5 feet is a melee weapon. A weapon used to attack a target at a distance is a ranged weapon."

See the difference?

 

[Zaruthustran]

By the way, the Weapon chart is also why you can't TWF with a shield. The rules for TWF require weapons (p195, light melee weapons; p165, one-handed melee weapons). A shield does not appear on the Weapons chart; a shield is not a weapon (light, one-handed, or otherwise).

A shield used as an Improvised Weapon is still a shield; using a shield as an Improvised Weapon does not place "Shield" on the Weapon chart. So: no TWF with shields*.

* Unless you have a generous DM who allows you to treat a shield as a club. In which case the shield is actually a club that's called "shield" (p 147) in the same way that a kama is actually a sickle that's called "Kama" (p 78). In other words: not an Improvised Weapon at all, but a club, with all the properties of a club and full proficiency bonus for those proficient in club. But again: cooperative DM required.

 

[Kikuras]

I wrote a long post on this subject (page 1 of this thread; it was last post on that page so you might have missed it).

I probably didn't register it because at the time I agreed, and there was no question in my mind, however since then I feel the wording used throughout the rules is very much incomplete as far as conveying the appropriate message, even if the intent is consistent (how melee and ranged would interact with class abilities and feats.)

As far as pg 146 and the DMG, you should read it again. My point was never about ranged attacks or melee attacks, but specifically how a weapon is categorized in the two-class system, melee and ranged. BY RAW a dagger (or other thrown melee) is both melee and ranged because the meet the textual description of both. The table on does depict intended classifications, but does not match what is written.

I would also draw your attention to pg 14 of the PHB, under the heading 'Weapons":

"For attacks with ranged weapons, use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage rolls. A weapon that has the thrown property, such as a handaxe, can use your Strength modifier instead.'

While not at all definitive, I find the placement of rules for thrown weapons odd, since it would be a rule that applies to melee weapons, not ranged.

All I'm saying is that the RAW on what a ranged weapon is not at all clear-cut, and if you were to make the argument without the (arbitrary) table on 149, this discussion would be a lot different.

Also, I DO agree with you on shields and TWF.

 

[Kikuras]

This conversation would also be different had the writers known about the word "only".

 

[Athinar]

Only Captain America can use a Shield as a Range Weapon and there is no CA in 5.0

 

[ExploderWizard]

SA can be used with any ranged or finesse weapon. What is a ranged weapon? Any weapon that that has a range. So if a weapon has a range expressed (range XX/YY) it can be used to sneak attack.