Dragonlance Dragonlance Philosophy thread

[Scribe]

And he called Elves the embodiment of good. He's saying that what he considers good inevitably leads to evil.

This is more of the color coded morality. Elves are the 'Good' race, but as we saw when things went sour.. Good organizations failed, and fell to evil.

Istar.
Knights.
Elves.

Before the Cataclysm, none of them would have passes a review.

Istar lost its power, because they were no longer good.

Knights, corrupt, haughty, Lord Soth.

Elves. Had resorted to enslaving their own.

These were all BEFORE bastions of good, but had fallen from grace. It's a story, biblical, in its age.

I hope that explains my position, I'm not saying it's the only view, but clearly there is room for interpretation here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Elves. Had resorted to enslaving their own.

It looks like WotC removed this according to reviews

 

[Scribe]

It looks like WotC removed this according to reviews

Yeah, no way they were going to keep slavery in. Same as Gully Dwarves, better to just ignore it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It looks like WotC removed this according to reviews

The time frame of the adventure pre-dates the enslavement of the Kagonesti. They didn't remove it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The time frame of the adventure pre-dates the enslavement of the Kagonesti. They didn't remove it.

I don't have the adventure yet, so I can only go by reviews, and here on enworld multi posters said they did


here are the changes I have seen listed (and I like them)

​

There is one important change from prior editions: steel pieces are no longer the economic standard! Or rather, there are still bronze and steel pieces in circulation but they have the same value respectively as silver and gold pieces. The book explains this as post-Cataclysm times forced people back to the bare necessities by skyrocketing steel’s value, but over time it went back to pre-Cataclysm standards.

Details on individual deities are sparse, amounting to a sentence or two per god. Branchala is no longer chaotic good, instead neutral good, which means that there are no more chaotic good gods in the setting, whereas Mishakal changed from neutral good to lawful good. Each of the Gods of Neutrality are True Neutral in alignment: Shinare and Sirrion were formerly lawful and chaotic neutral respectively. As for the gods of evil only Chemosh has changed, from neutral to lawful evil.

But the other big change, and one that rubbed quite a few fans the wrong way, is that Goldmoon’s discovery of the Disks of Mishakal isn’t the first instance of non-evil clerics coming back into Ansalon. The Gods of Good and Neutrality are playing a bit of a slow head start: while divine magic* is still largely unknown on Krynn (the Dragon Armies excepting), there are a few mortals who witnessed and received miraculous visions.

Another portion of the text acknowledges the gods’ atrocities, but doesn’t have an answer and falls back into the “well it’s really our fault this happened” line that has been traditional for the setting.

​

This is another change from canon; in the original Dragonlance Chronicles, both the Qualinesti and Silvanesti enslaved the Kagonesti to use as an exploitable labor force. And they were still good-aligned while doing so! WotC rightfully retconned this.

But what of other races not listed here, like a half-orc or warforged? Well the default assumption is that such people are extraplanar travelers or existed as pre-Cataclysm civilizations that are now isolated enclaves. In other words, it leaves that to the Dungeon Master’s discretion.

Initiate of High Sorcery grants a bonus wizard cantrip and two 1st level spells based on an affiliated moon. Unlike Divinely Favored the bonus spells are not gate kept behind alignment, nor are the Adept Robe feats, so technically within the rules you can be an good-aligned Adept of the Red Robes or an evil-aligned Initiate choosing bonus spells from Solinari.

 

[Faolyn]

My values.

Intolerance of other people's beliefs is bad.

So, if person A think that mass murder is Good, and person B think that mass murder is Evil, person B the bad one here?!

Good grief.

Yeah, no. Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that if your PCs discovered that the gods were planning on killing you because of someone else's actions, you wouldn't just shrug and roll up a new character. You'd be thinking of those gods as your next BBEG.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So, if person A think that mass murder is Good, and person B think that mass murder is Evil, person B the bad one here?!

Good grief.

Yeah, no. Somehow, I have a sneaking suspicion that if your PCs discovered that the gods were planning on killing you because of someone else's actions, you wouldn't just shrug and roll up a new character. You'd be thinking of those gods as your next BBEG.

that might be better then "if the PC had there LG wizard meteor swarm the town to kill the evil mayor"

If the PCs found out that they had hours before the cataclysm, and teh reason was the evil leader of the evil mind control cult the gods wanted to stop, would the Players be like "Oh, okay that's a good choice"

 

[Faolyn]

It's the goodness of anyone who sincerely believes they are a good person.

Nothing more misguided and dangerous than that.

That's not actually good, though.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's the goodness of anyone who sincerely believes they are a good person.

Nothing more misguided and dangerous than that.

wait everyone who thinks they are good automatically are evil? because they are trying to be good?!? what? please explain

Edit: so SUperman, Ted Lasso, Michael from the Dresden files are all asevil as magneto and punisher....?

 

[Faolyn]

wait everyone who thinks they are good automatically are evil? because they are trying to be good?!? what? please explain

Clearly, people who think they are good are also incapable of any sort of reflection, humility, decency, or actual ability to care about other people.