D&D 5E (2014) How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence

[Neonchameleon]

Yes... that is what I said.

The problem with what you said is that most of the reason I pay for games is that balance isn't easy and requires work. I shouldn't, as the DM, be called upon to fix half-assed design by balancing it on the fly.

 

[Ancalagon]

A standard action is never a straight upgrade to a bonus action. Especially when the bonus action isn't a spell.

Not saying that it's not better - but an action is a high cost.

The problem with the Twilight Cleric isn't the channel divinity. That would be fine as a central reason for taking the class. It's that it has the channel divinity and the darkvision and the martial weapons + heavy armour and the initiative and the flight and a superb spell list.

Indeed.

You could outright remove the twilight aura (or very strongly nerf it) and they still would be a very solid cleric.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Apparently I use a different means of measuring fun than effectiveness in combat compared to the other players.

Me, I find feeling useless in a team activity to be aggressively unfun.

Combat is D&D's biggest team activity.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Yeah . . . I have a Drow Twilight Cleric in my Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign right now. It is remarkably overpowered, not just because of the crazy amounts of THP that it can get and give to its allies, but also because it can stack with so many other things. Heavy Armor and a Shield, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Twilight Sanctuary, and Aid can all be stacked on top of each other. That gives the Twilight Domain Cleric a crazy amount of survivability at lower levels, and they can share almost all of those things with allies.

The Artillerist has to expend an Action to create an Eldritch Cannon, and then a bonus action every round in order to grant allies within 10 feet of it 1d8 + INT mod THP, and Eldritch Cannon recharges each long rest. Twilight Sanctuary is just one action to activate, automatic THP/ending charmed/frightened on every ally within 30 feet when they start their turn there, it recharges on a short rest, they get even more Channel Divinities each short rest when they level up, and the THP granted scales way better (1d6 + cleric level, instead of 1d8 + INT mod).

That's just . . . plain broken. I know that clerics are supposed to be good protectors/healers/supporters, but there is such a thing as being too good at those things. It makes it harder to balance encounters, and it makes the other players feel like they're not accomplishing their in-game niche as effectively as the Twilight Domain Cleric is.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah . . . I have a Drow Twilight Cleric in my Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign right now. It is remarkably overpowered, not just because of the crazy amounts of THP that it can get and give to its allies, but also because it can stack with so many other things. Heavy Armor and a Shield, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Twilight Sanctuary, and Aid can all be stacked on top of each other. That gives the Twilight Domain Cleric a crazy amount of survivability at lower levels, and they can share almost all of those things with allies.

The Artillerist has to expend an Action to create an Eldritch Cannon, and then a bonus action every round in order to grant allies within 10 feet of it 1d8 + INT mod THP, and Eldritch Cannon recharges each long rest. Twilight Sanctuary is just one action to activate, automatic THP/ending charmed/frightened on every ally within 30 feet when they start their turn there, it recharges on a short rest, they get even more Channel Divinities each short rest when they level up, and the THP granted scales way better (1d6 + cleric level, instead of 1d8 + INT mod).

That's just . . . plain broken. I know that clerics are supposed to be good protectors/healers/supporters, but there is such a thing as being too good at those things. It makes it harder to balance encounters, and it makes the other players feel like they're not accomplishing their in-game niche as effectively as the Twilight Domain Cleric is.

Our campaign started with GoS, then ended with one of my own adventures. Early on in GoS there is plate mail. So yeah, a twilight cleric with AC 21 and all that temp HP? Hard to hit, and when you do, they just get the temp HP right back. Then throw on other spells like shield of faith? Best tank ever. Also worked exceptionally well with the barbarian, which effectively doubled the temp hp (because of damage resistance).

 

[Minigiant]

One shotted with a twilight cleric party member.

It's busted OP AND it slows the game down.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It seems blatantly and bizarrely broken. Like if the channel divinity was one and done (i.e. you gain the temp HP once) it would still be pretty good. Every turn? I really don't know what they were thinking... I definitely wouldn't allow this in my game, and it makes me doubt the competence of the designers that this got published.

 

[Mort]

Apparently I use a different means of measuring fun than effectiveness in combat compared to the other players.

Who said it's just combat?

A properly prepared 3e mage (one who properly utilizes the way item creation works) can make a 3e rogue near completely superfluous and still accomplish their own role just fine - that's a system issue.

 

[Neonchameleon]

One shotted with a twilight cleric party member.

It's busted OP AND it slows the game down.

Yeah, that's to me the worst thing about it. Excessive healing with minimal damage is annoying and slow - renewing ablative armour is just tedious to deal with. I'd far rather see OP offence doing too much damage than something that just jams the game.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah it's OP if not broken.

We have one in current group. In the Underdark.

The flying ability is also nice. If need be she flies around with spiritual guardians running.

Treantmonk gave it an S rating along with the peace cleric and he is very strict. Dungeon Dudes also gave it an S.

Zard would also rate it S tier.