D&D 5E How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence

[Zardnaar]

So the game I ran with a twilight cleric? There was also a shepherd druid in the party, who played as a "summoner". The "meatwall" was insane.

I don't allow summoner type archetypes in the party.

Best case scenario they choke up combat and slow everything down.

Worst case you get something like your description.

 

[Don Durito]

Maybe someone else can start a thread to re-litigate the argument from 2003 or whenever about whether balance is actually desirable?

Maybe this thread can stick to the topic of whether it exists in this case?

 

[Zardnaar]

A standard action is never a straight upgrade to a bonus action. Especially when the bonus action isn't a spell.

Not saying that it's not better - but an action is a high cost.

The problem with the Twilight Cleric isn't the channel divinity. That would be fine as a central reason for taking the class. It's that it has the channel divinity and the darkvision and the martial weapons + heavy armour and the initiative and the flight and a superb spell list.

This.

Our twilight cleric doesn't turn undead. She flies around granting temporary hit points using spiritual guardians and maybe spiritual hammer to nuke everything.

She also has booming blade and gfb. And gauntlets of ogre power.

Without the gauntlets you use toll the dead/sacred flame, medium armor and the Tasha variant rule for divine strike.

She's also competing with the rogue and paladin for damage.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Too bad the book is already written. There's nothing to be done. Everyone has no choice but to play it as is.

 

[Ancalagon]

Yeah . . . I have a Drow Twilight Cleric in my Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign right now. It is remarkably overpowered, not just because of the crazy amounts of THP that it can get and give to its allies, but also because it can stack with so many other things. Heavy Armor and a Shield, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Twilight Sanctuary, and Aid can all be stacked on top of each other. That gives the Twilight Domain Cleric a crazy amount of survivability at lower levels, and they can share almost all of those things with allies.

The Artillerist has to expend an Action to create an Eldritch Cannon, and then a bonus action every round in order to grant allies within 10 feet of it 1d8 + INT mod THP, and Eldritch Cannon recharges each long rest. Twilight Sanctuary is just one action to activate, automatic THP/ending charmed/frightened on every ally within 30 feet when they start their turn there, it recharges on a short rest, they get even more Channel Divinities each short rest when they level up, and the THP granted scales way better (1d6 + cleric level, instead of 1d8 + INT mod).

That's just . . . plain broken. I know that clerics are supposed to be good protectors/healers/supporters, but there is such a thing as being too good at those things. It makes it harder to balance encounters, and it makes the other players feel like they're not accomplishing their in-game niche as effectively as the Twilight Domain Cleric is.

Also to use the temp HP cannon, the artillerist has to give up on her force ballista, reducing their damage output quite significantly. The Psi warrior can't use his psi points to do more damage, or reaction to do AoO. The twilight cleric can't turn undead... but they might not need to!

 

[Ancalagon]

One shotted with a twilight cleric party member.

It's busted OP AND it slows the game down.

Yes, I forgot about that, it makes each person's round that much longer. Important point.

 

[TheSword]

It’s good but like all beacon type abilities it makes the twilight cleric a big glowing target. If used excessively just have every enemy focus on the cleric… which is the sensible tactical thing for intelligent foes.

Don’t forget that if the cleric is incapacitated in any way the ability ends. So dropping to 0 hp, sleep, hold person, stunning all stop it.

If like me you’ll willing to adapt foes to the party then this ability let’s you ramp up the difficulty and make fights more epic. Giving all PCs a boost in HP is fine if it means they can face tougher challenges.

 

[Zardnaar]

Also to use the temp HP cannon, the artillerist has to give up on her force ballista, reducing their damage output quite significantly. The Psi warrior can't use his psi points to do more damage, or reaction to do AoO. The twilight cleric can't turn undead... but they might not need to!

The opportunity cost on artillerist hurts and it's not that great anyway.

Artificer kinda sucks anyway (all of them).

 

[Zardnaar]

Too bad the book is already written. There's nothing to be done. Everyone has no choice but to play it as is.

Don't have to allow them in the game.

Next campaign probably not gonna allow twilight or peace clerics.

 

[Ancalagon]

The opportunity cost on artillerist hurts and it's not that great anyway.

Artificer kinda sucks anyway (all of them).

I've heard that from a number of people. I'm very disappointed with the alchemist. I haven't seen any of them in play to be frank. (and yet I've seen shepherd druid, bladesigner, rune knight, hexblades... strange how that goes).