Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[WarDragon]

Unless Supreme Weapon Focus has easier prereqs than Perfect attack, it seems weaker.

I was assuming it replaced Perfect Attack. Not really any worse, with the Epic feat that lets you apply your weapon-specific feats to any weapon.

Perhaps (since they only pertain to one weapon) that it be 1&2 = Epic, 3 = divine, 4 = cosmic? I seems like there are better abilities at their tiers that affect more things than just one kind of weapon, so If they are to be good, perhaps they aught to be one tier lower?

See above.

For Uncanny Weapon Specialization - I like Wardragon's Idea of treating the weapon as one size larger. Perhaps it could even make the weapon always be treated as the maximum mass you could lift... So If I had 250 some strength, and I am a greatsword master, I could swing any greatsword as though it were made of neutronium or whatever.

For Supreme Weapon Specialization - Either always deal double damage or, if thats too weak, Always score a critical hit. (may be too strong)

Hmm... I'm thinking with this, they should trade places. Double Damage with Uncanny, and "Maximum Mass" with Supreme. My reasoning is that unarmed fighters would get hosed out of an ability if Uncanny works that way, since they already get the maxed mass via virtual size categories.

Hi guys!

As with yesterday, I'll throw some ideas into the mix now and respond to the previous questions later tonight.

I think I am almost seeing the final ability lists take shape, but there are still a few more ideas I'm not altogether sure about.

Divine

Ephemeral Archery ~ you need no ammunition (this one was suggested by someone here a few weeks ago, apologies for forgetting exactly who). The problem is that I can't fathom how this should work.

Just create arrows appropriate to your size, maybe? Enhancement bonuses should be taken care of by the bow (or Arcane Archer levels).

Spell Shot ~ I meant to say I am unsure exactly how to incorporate spells in tandem with this ability. I know I have 'a' mechanic in place but I am just not convinced its the right mechanic.

Targets affected by spell, or area spells centered on them. What's the problem?

Animal Bond (working name) ~ An ability whereby you can have either your companion, familiar or steed take damage instead of you, or vice versa.

I like it.

Seeking Shot ~ I can't actually remember the initial idea I had for this, I wanted it like homing missile, but the mechanic is evading me.

Ignores concealment, maybe? Or size bonuses to AC? Eliminate range increment penalties?

Cosmic

Unearthly Manyshot ~ Use Manyshot as one of your attacks when making a full attack (this feat can be gained multiple times and its effects stack, each time you replace a normal shot with a Manyshot).

Archers are finally useful!

Transcendental

Cursed Damage Induction ~ Only hurt by cursed weapons (not sure about the validity of using both this power and Natural Damage Induction)
Natural Damage Induction ~ Only hurt by natural weapons
Unnatural Damage Induction ~ Only hurt by a weapons enchantment bonus (requires Natural Damage Induction)
Temporal Damage Induction ~ only be affected by one opponent per round
Material Damage Induction ~ only affected by one type of material

I agree with Ltheb; if you take Cursed DI, you can't take Natural DI, and vice versa. Although, why would Unnatural require Natural? I realize it's a very powerful ability (maybe even Omnific, rather than Transcendental), but getting enhancements on natural weapons is a lot harder than manufactured ones.

Music of the Spheres ~ should affecting an entire planet with your music be Transcendental?

Make it Cosmic.

Omnific

Adversarial Damage Induction ~ only be affected by one opponent in the universe (requires Temporal Damage Induction)
Unique Damage Induction ~ only affected by one weapon in the universe (requires Material Damage Induction)...yes this is Transcorporeality.

These may have troubles with Learned Opponent/Weapon Immunity. Another case of mutual exclusivity?

 

[Phantom Llama]

My guess: They get only one shot at hurting you. Period. Better make it a good shot, or Abrogate this power immediatly. (Unless you Abrogate their abrogate. I love the logistics of a power that self-cancels.)

Multi/Omnidimensional is another way to overcome the difficulty.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Unless Supreme Weapon Focus has easier prereqs than Perfect attack, it seems weaker.

It would ultimately be the same power.

Perhaps (since they only pertain to one weapon) that it be 1&2 = Epic, 3 = divine, 4 = cosmic? I seems like there are better abilities at their tiers that affect more things than just one kind of weapon, so If they are to be good, perhaps they aught to be one tier lower?

Once I get all the powers finished I am sure you guys will tell me which are overpowered and which are not.

For Uncanny Weapon Specialization - I like Wardragon's Idea of treating the weapon as one size larger. Perhaps it could even make the weapon always be treated as the maximum mass you could lift... So If I had 250 some strength, and I am a greatsword master, I could swing any greatsword as though it were made of neutronium or whatever.

I agree - I like that idea!

For Supreme Weapon Specialization - Either always deal double damage or, if thats too weak, Always score a critical hit. (may be too strong)

I already have critical hits in another ability chain, hence the reason I didn't want them to intrude herein.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya matey!

Can you create ammo with enhancement equivelent bonuses on it? Perhaps bonuses up to 1/4 your ECL (instead of the 1/2 artifacts allow)

I have an enchanted archery epic feat that lets you stack both the weapon and missile powers (thats another one someone suggested on the boards here).

Can't comment unless I know what you're thinking...

Well in the previous update I had Spell Shot allowing you to apply any first level spell to a missile (the ability stacked so you could keep upping the spell level).

Sounds reasonable. For a mount, a sufficiently high ride check can usually do this anyway, but allowing it to work anytime (even when not near it) sounds pretty cool.

You can fire at anything within your range, so long as any curve of effect (instead of line of effect) exists between you and your target?

That suggests it should then be an epic feat though.

Woo. This is an ability along the lines of a Cometary Dragon's Time Folding Ability. I'd say you placed it right, as such.

Well I'm bound to get the occasional one right.

Well, you could make it an "either or" thing. EITHER cursed OR natural weapons can hurt. Combined with Unnatural Damage Induction, the negative modifier on the cursed weapon would be allowed to damage you. Put it in the "special" line.

Putting both down seems unnecessary though.

I'd rather think cosmic is more appropriate. If Galactus can eat a planet, why can't a cosmic bard inspire or fascinate one?

Well Galactus has Transcendental abilities though - or will have once I get them finished.

With this ability you could conceivably charm an entire planet!

How would this interact with "Learned Opponent Immunity"?

How would this interact with "Learned Weapon Immunity"?

Thats the million dollar question.

 

[poilbrun]

Hello!

I am designing a one-shot adventure for this week-end for a group of level 50 to do some playtest of UK's rule, and I would like some input from you regarding treasure:

- A level 50 character has wealth equal to 50*50*50*100=12.500.000 gp.
- A level 51 has 13.265.100gp
- That means that over the course of the level, the group should gain 4*(13.265.100-12.500.000)=3.060.400.
- To gain a level, they will have to defeat 13.33 enemies of level 50. Each of those will have wealth valued at 50*50*50*25=3.125.000 gp.

As you can see, defeating a single opponent of equal CR will give the group more wealth than they should gain over the whole level.

This problem is not too important for me since I play a one-shot adventure. But since my main campaign is reaching epic soon, I'd like to get a grip on how I should handle treasure.

UK, on a not-so-related note, is the next update going to be posted today? Have you been able to do some work on portfolios? I hope so, though you shouldn't worry too much if you don't have time to reply, I'll see it soon enough

 

[Frobojoe]

Hello!

I am designing a one-shot adventure for this week-end for a group of level 50 to do some playtest of UK's rule, and I would like some input from you regarding treasure:

- A level 50 character has wealth equal to 50*50*50*100=12.500.000 gp.
- A level 51 has 13.265.100gp
- That means that over the course of the level, the group should gain 4*(13.265.100-12.500.000)=3.060.400.
- To gain a level, they will have to defeat 13.33 enemies of level 50. Each of those will have wealth valued at 50*50*50*25=3.125.000 gp.

As you can see, defeating a single opponent of equal CR will give the group more wealth than they should gain over the whole level.

This problem is not too important for me since I play a one-shot adventure. But since my main campaign is reaching epic soon, I'd like to get a grip on how I should handle treasure.

UK, on a not-so-related note, is the next update going to be posted today? Have you been able to do some work on portfolios? I hope so, though you shouldn't worry too much if you don't have time to reply, I'll see it soon enough

I think your problem is that you've vastly underestimated the character wealth for a 5th level character. The table in the Epic Level Handbook gives 13,600,000 GP as the standard wealth for a 40th level character, which is more then you've alloted for a character 10 levels above that. I've used 38,500,000 GP as the standard wealth for a 50th level character in the past and I'm guessing that if you use that instead, your characters will gain a more appropriate amount of wealth.

 

[poilbrun]

Hi there Frobojoe!

I'm using wealth values as in the version 4 of UK's Challenging Challenge Rating documents, that's how I came up with those numbers. Basically, it states that PC wealth = level³*100, NPC wealth = level³*25.

While I don't know yet whether this level of wealth is appropriate for this level of power (since I've never played at this level), I know the formula is not applicable in play

 

[Frobojoe]

Hi there Frobojoe!

I'm using wealth values as in the version 4 of UK's Challenging Challenge Rating documents, that's how I came up with those numbers. Basically, it states that PC wealth = level³*100, NPC wealth = level³*25.

While I don't know yet whether this level of wealth is appropriate for this level of power (since I've never played at this level), I know the formula is not applicable in play

Ah, that would explain why you got such different numbers. I've noticed that Upper_Krust's formulas tend to result in a lot lower character wealth then the standard rules, but I'm as yet undecided weather or not it's a good thing.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I just updated! A lot of unfinished and cut & paste in the Portfolios chapter, but even getting all the donkey work, takes time unfortunately.

Okay, I'm a bit knackered, I'll talk to you all again tomorrow.

 

[Pssthpok]

UK,
It's nice that the divine abilities are closer to being done, but the prolific amount of cut/paste work in the Portfolio chapter doesn't seem like a 10 day's worth of update... do you have a girlfriend we don't know about?
Just keep in mind that if you keep adding material, you'll never finish the book. The longer you leave the book open-ended like this, the more material people could get through this pre-order schtick and still be justified in asking for their money back.
What are we looking at now, as far as releases? Up to 1.6, at least, by the rate the text has been progressing?