Immortals Handbook - ASCENSION

[Alzrius]

Just let us know when you'd like a release (or part of a release) to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. We're cheap editors for the cost.

Hey, get your own job, that one's mine.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi GQuail mate!

Just wanted to chip in to say that, like the others, I'd also rather see a complete Ascension than a huge but forever incomplete one. BUt it seems clear you agree on that.

Indeed.

Also, I really should have mentioned this before, but if your product isn't finished, then after version 0.9 you should really have version 0.10. I'm certainly finding it hard to parse in my brain the existence of a 1.6 that still isn't done. ;-)

I'll change the designation for the next update. Maybe v.0.88 is more apropos.

Query: is there a paticular dude you've got helping out on the artwork now?

Well supposedly, although he seems to have went awol. In fairness he did say he was going to be a bit busy the past week. But I can just see the irony of me taking on the only person slower than me...although to be fair I am quite quick at the interior art.

And what's the ETA looking like on the print bestiary, is that entirely out of your hands now?

Its out of my hands. I had it delivered the last time I posted the cover. As far as I know it won't arrive before 2007, but I honestly haven't been given a date.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

U_K!
I think I have to agree with everyone here; You have plenty of powers and mechanics for most of them. Since you are going to be working on portfolios for a while, why not take that creative train and use it to create unique portfolio powers. (Most seem to be a Cosmic power or 6 divine abilities)

Here's a question: Your portfolio tables only go up to Old ones, yet beings of higher power still have access to portfolios. (Any of them, in fact) Since you included a portfolio weakness, do you think that combat at such levels will be Divine Rock-Paper-Scissors? And what bonuses does something like a Demiurge or a Timelord get for embodying a porfolio? (Unless you just randomly choose weak powers, it seems impossible to build a Timelord without a gimmick/theme)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Cheiromancer dude!

This new, "perfect" method doesn't match up very well with the (level cubed * 100). They match at CR 100, but before that the (level squared * 10 000) method gives you a higher result.

The new system is based on my artifact rules, which are based on the CR system.

Those new rules should give a character 4 artifacts which add exactly one third of the ECL for a class level.

e.g. A 100th-level character is ECL 66 without the equipment and ECL 100 with it.

If you use the official method for determining wealth then I believe at 100th-level (277 million) you have wealth for a 166th-level character.

I wanted to ask you the best way of playtesting a creature's CR is. What you've found the most reliable method to be; e.g. do you take 4 of them, find out what level group they are a moderate (25%) challenge for, and then work backward from the EL, or what?

The simplest method is to check out the combat statistics against five PC/NPC* fighters of half the monsters ECL (once you have determined the ECL via the CR system).

*For immortals PC and NPC equipment should be the same.

Use 5 instead of 4 since obviously quick-roleplaying multiple characters for test purposes is not going to be as tough as 5 individual PCs.

So I have a list of standard Fighter combat stats up to 100th-level lying around here somewhere. As I have said before I did do testing up to 200th-level, although admittedly that was a while ago, and I am sure a lot of things have been in flux since then. Although if the CR system was holding up well against the testing, so I wasn't that bothered not doing a lot of testing after that.

 

[Eversius]

Hey UK, is it possible to expend a divine/cosmic ability slot to gain another artifact? This question is mainly in regards to creatures with more than 4 arms who want to wield a weapon in each hand that doesn't suck. I mean, look at Alabaster, he has 6 artifact swords.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K!

Hiya mate!

I think I have to agree with everyone here; You have plenty of powers and mechanics for most of them. Since you are going to be working on portfolios for a while, why not take that creative train and use it to create unique portfolio powers. (Most seem to be a Cosmic power or 6 divine abilities).

Each portfolio is worth half your current divine rank (although Portfolio weaknesses allow me a bit of slack on this).

Which makes things a touch awkward for single portfolios in hindsight.

I have been considering making each portfolio power a single scalable power rather than a Prestige Class multiple powers depending on your divine status. This idea would involve scrapping the divine bonus idea ~ which was mostly a covering power, and a trifle bland.

But I have been having difficulty arriving at an individual power which is:

1. Unique to the portfolio.
2. Scales perfectly at each divine status.
3. Is all-encompassing, as far as the portfolio is concerned.

So the alternative is to constrct something multifaceted, rather than necessarily unique:

e.g. Fire Portfolio

A. Abjure ~ Immunity (single), Absorption (double)
B. Evoke ~ cast any spell with the fire descriptor 1/round (single), 2/round (double)
C. Divine ~ range: world (single), plane (double).
D. Transmute ~ add AMC equal to your Divine Rank to any spells with the fire descriptor you can actually cast (single), double your divine rank in AMC (double).
E. Transmute II ~ Immunity vs. Fire only 50% effective against you (single), 25% (double)
F. Evoke II ~ you gain the fire effect
G. Divine II ~ add divine rank as a competence bonus on all rolls against foes with the aquatic descriptor (single), double divine rank (double)
H. Conjure ~ +50% Hit Dice (single) +200% (double)
I. Abjure II ~ Nullify any spells with the fire descriptor in your divine aura (single), reflect them back on their casters (double)
J. Enchant ~ You automatically control (no save) any fire creatures whose CR is 33% your own (single), 66% (double)

Select one of the above at each divine status. You get the last ('K') at First One.

K. Universal ~ you become your portfolio, unique (transcendental) power..such as Transtemporal.

Here's a question: Your portfolio tables only go up to Old ones, yet beings of higher power still have access to portfolios.

That should really be ending at First One.

Technically portfolios end when you get to sidereals. I mean the First Ones are the dimensions, the old ones are the planes and the elder ones are the layers. So, Zurvan IS Time, Metatron is Spirit/Good. In a sense the other portfolios are weaker than the main six. So by rights there should be 3 or more tiers of portfolios, but I think that could simply be too confusing, and it also disallows for the idea that you could have First ones who embody different dimensions. Pyreus, the old one of Fire could supplant Satan and the elemental planes would become a fiery dimension.

(Any of them, in fact) Since you included a portfolio weakness, do you think that combat at such levels will be Divine Rock-Paper-Scissors? And what bonuses does something like a Demiurge or a Timelord get for embodying a porfolio? (Unless you just randomly choose weak powers, it seems impossible to build a Timelord without a gimmick/theme)

To be honest at a certain point I think portfolios will be secondary to omnific powers.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Eversius mate!

Hey UK, is it possible to expend a divine/cosmic ability slot to gain another artifact?

Yes. I think that would be a derivation of Soniferous. So I think it should be a cosmic power - in fact I may add a cosmic power that does just that (there I go again! ).

This question is mainly in regards to creatures with more than 4 arms who want to wield a weapon in each hand that doesn't suck.

Well you could always wield lesser powered rather than full powered items, but that brings you back to th reason for limiting the number in the first place. So I say make it a cosmic ability.

I mean, look at Alabaster, he has 6 artifact swords.

His are 3/4ths power (in the print version anyway).

But I was technically cheating.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Hiya mate!
Each portfolio is worth half your current divine rank (although Portfolio weaknesses allow me a bit of slack on this).
Which makes things a touch awkward for single portfolios in hindsight.
I have been considering making each portfolio power a single scalable power rather than a Prestige Class multiple powers depending on your divine status. This idea would involve scrapping the divine bonus idea ~ which was mostly a covering power, and a trifle bland.
But I have been having difficulty arriving at an individual power which is:
1. Unique to the portfolio.
2. Scales perfectly at each divine status.
3. Is all-encompassing, as far as the portfolio is concerned.
So the alternative is to constrct something multifaceted, rather than necessarily unique:
e.g. Fire Portfolio
A. Abjure ~ Immunity (single), Absorption (double)
B. Evoke ~ cast any spell with the fire descriptor 1/round (single), 2/round (double)
C. Divine ~ range: world (single), plane (double).
D. Transmute ~ add AMC equal to your Divine Rank to any spells with the fire descriptor you can actually cast (single), double your divine rank in AMC (double).
E. Transmute II ~ Immunity vs. Fire only 50% effective against you (single), 25% (double)
F. Evoke II ~ you gain the fire effect
G. Divine II ~ add divine rank as a competence bonus on all rolls against foes with the aquatic descriptor (single), double divine rank (double)
H. Conjure ~ +50% Hit Dice (single) +200% (double)
I. Abjure II ~ Nullify any spells with the fire descriptor in your divine aura (single), reflect them back on their casters (double)
J. Enchant ~ You automatically control (no save) any fire creatures whose CR is 33% your own (single), 66% (double)
Select one of the above at each divine status. You get the last ('K') at First One.
K. Universal ~ you become your portfolio, unique (transcendental) power..such as Transtemporal.
That should really be ending at First One.
Technically portfolios end when you get to sidereals. I mean the First Ones are the dimensions, the old ones are the planes and the elder ones are the layers. So, Zurvan IS Time, Metatron is Spirit/Good. In a sense the other portfolios are weaker than the main six. So by rights there should be 3 or more tiers of portfolios, but I think that could simply be too confusing, and it also disallows for the idea that you could have First ones who embody different dimensions. Pyreus, the old one of Fire could supplant Satan and the elemental planes would become a fiery dimension.
To be honest at a certain point I think portfolios will be secondary to omnific powers.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I wouldn't know where to begin with the porfolios.
As for "Option K" - What if you have the Omnific power to have every portfolio? Thats pretty potent.
And as far as Alabastor is concerned: He's the villian. Villains are allowed to cheat. They couldn't get anything done if they didn't.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Hi Cheiromancer dude!

Hi Upper_Krust!

If you use the official method for determining wealth then I believe at 100th-level (277 million) you have wealth for a 166th-level character.

I don't think I've ever seen the formula for official wealth at higher levels. I've seen a progression over on the WotC boards somewhere, but no formula.

What formula do you suggest up to around 40th level or so?

The simplest method is to check out the combat statistics against five PC/NPC* fighters of half the monsters ECL (once you have determined the ECL via the CR system).

*For immortals PC and NPC equipment should be the same.

Use 5 instead of 4 since obviously quick-roleplaying multiple characters for test purposes is not going to be as tough as 5 individual PCs.

So I have a list of standard Fighter combat stats up to 100th-level lying around here somewhere. As I have said before I did do testing up to 200th-level, although admittedly that was a while ago, and I am sure a lot of things have been in flux since then. Although if the CR system was holding up well against the testing, so I wasn't that bothered not doing a lot of testing after that.

That's very interesting. Expeditious Retreat's Beast Builder suggests that "When testing CRs, test two of the monsters against a party that is on average two levels higher than a single monster's CR." This is for a moderate encounter (15-25% of the party's resources).

Although this is orthodox WotC thinking, they should be using 4 monsters and the party should have twice the CR of a single monster. The Beast Builder method will give you the wrong numbers. I wonder how many monsters have been assigned the wrong CR because designers use the wrong playtesting method.

 

[dante58701]

Hey Krusty...to spare you some time I got a head start on a Hunefer Template.

Of course due to various rules and laws I have to state that this template is not a challenge to anyone's copyright and is not done in the course of trade...it's just done for fun.

So here's the beginning....please note any corrections I should make. That way I can repost them and make this baby complete in time or my halloween monster mash.

Hunefer

[Insert Flavor Text Here]

Hunefers speak all spoken languages, though it takes one 1d4 rounds to switch between languages.

Creating a Hunefer

“Hunefer” is an acquired template that can be added to any creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A hunefer has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.

Armor Class: A hunefer has a natural armor bonus equal to 1/2 it's hit dice or the base creature’s natural armor bonus, whichever is better. As well as an insight armor bonus equal to it's Wis modifier.

Attack: A hunefer has a slam attack according to it's size. If the base creature can use weapons, the hunefer retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons, in addition to, or instead of a slam attack, depending on the creature's original form. A hunefer fighting without weapons uses either its slam attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A hunefer armed with a weapon uses its slam attack or a weapon, as it desires. A hunefer's natural attacks are considered epic and evil-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Full Attack: A hunefer fighting without weapons uses either its slam attack (see above) or its natural weapons (if it has any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a slam attack as a natural secondary attack, provided it has a way to make that attack (either a free hand or a natural weapon that it can use as a secondary attack).

Damage: A hunefer without natural weapons has a slam attack that inflicts damage according to it's size plus hunefer rot; A hunefer with natural weapons can use its slam attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals hunefer on each natural weapon attack.

Special Attacks: A hunefer retains all the base creature’s special attacks and gains those described below. Save DCs are equal to 10 + 1/2 hunefer’s HD + hunefer’s Cha modifier, unless otherwise noted.

Despair (Su): The mere sight of a hunefer requires viewers to succeed at a Will saving throw or be paralyzed with fear for 1d4 rounds. Regardless of the outcome of the save, a subject is not again vulnerable to that hunefer’s despair ability for 24 hours. The DC is Charisma-based.

Hunefer Rot (Su): Supernatural disease – slam or natural attack, incubation period instantaneous; damage 1d6 temporary Con. Unlike normal diseases, hunefer rot requires a victim to make a successful saving throw every round or take another 1d6 points of temporary Constitution damage. The rot continues until the victim reaches Constitution 0 (and dies) or receives a remove disease spell or similar magic. An afflicted creature that dies shrivels away into sand unless both remove disease and raise dead (or better) are cast on the remains within 2 rounds. If the remains are not so treated, on the third round the dust swirls and forms an 18 HD mummy with the dead foe’s equipment under the hunefer’s command. (The mummy dust epic spell has statistics for an 18 HD mummy.)

Spell-Like Abilities: At will - chain lightning, displacement, haste, knock, greater dispel magic, passwall, scrying, greater teleport, true seeing, unholy aura, weird; 1/day - ruin (epic spell). Caster level equal to the hunefer's hit dice; save DC 10 + hunefer's Cha modifier + spell level. The DC is Charisma-based.

Special Qualities: A hunefer retains all the base creature’s special qualities and gains those described below.

Blindsight (Ex): A hunefer possesses blindsight out to 300 ft. .

Damage Reduction (Ex): A hunefer’s undead body is tough, giving the creature damage reduction equal to “half it's hit dice”/ - .

Fast Healing (Ex): A hunefer possesses fast healing equal to one half it's hit dice. This allows the hunefer to rejuvenate lost body parts and limbs. It also allows the hunefer to recover from complete destruction, provided it's canopic jars are still intact. If the hunefer's canopic jars are not intact, the hunefer loses it's fast healing ability until they are somehow restored, typically requiring a miracle or a wish for each of it's four canopic jars.

Fire Vulnerability (Ex): A hunefer is especially vulnerable to fire, taking half again (+50 percent) as much damage from fire.

Undead Traits: Immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromantic effects, mind-affecting effects, and any effect requiring a Fortitude save unless it also works on objects. Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Negative energy heals. Not at risk of death from massive damage, but destroyed at 0 hit points or less. Darkvision 60 ft. Cannot be raised; resurrection works only if creature is willing.

Spell Resistance (Ex): A hunefer possesses spell resistance equal to 10 + it's hit dice.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +36, Dex +24, Int +8, Wis +28, Cha +26. Being undead, a hunefer has no Constitution score.

Skills: Same as the base creature.

Organization: Solitary, pair, or court (5-9).

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +25.

Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; double items.

Alignment: Any evil.

Advancement: By character class.

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +37.

[Insert Creation Process Text Here]