D&D General Maybe I was ALWAYs playing 4e... even in 2e

[Garthanos]

"Why am I building a shelter when the Wizard can cast Tiny Hut?"

the DMG2 suggest various reasons for auto successes... including having just the right ritual or martial practices.

"Best not to ask about these things, the DM looks testy tonight."

Then he is doing it NOT using the tools as recommended

Its even suggested you can use Expend Dailies as extra effort to gain auto successes.

Or healing surges and action points for similar though lesser benefits

 

[pemerton]

Unfortunately, what happens when you don't need a skill challenge to overcome obstacles?

I have no idea how organised play handled this, but the rulebooks are clear enough - if its an encounter power (or comparable) +2 to a check, if its a daily power (or comparable) it counts as an auto-success.

EDIT: x-posted with @Garthanos.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

the DMG2 suggest various reasons for auto successes... including having just the right ritual or martial practices.

Then he is doing it NOT using the tools as recommended

Its even suggested you can use Expend Dailies as extra effort to gain auto successes.

Or healing surges and action points for similar though lesser benefits

yeah I hated when one of the adventures had some weird things were you had to do things in order but my players broke the order by useing common sense... I rolled with it

 

[James Gasik]

yeah I hated when one of the adventures had some weird things were you had to do things in order but my players broke the order by useing common sense... I rolled with it

Even if the DM had read the DMG2 (I don't know if he did or didn't), I think it was the Phantom Steeds that were a bridge too far. The adventure used a system of "fatigue points" that wanted to make your struggle to survive and get to your destination in a timely manner more exciting.

I remember the DM specifically running this trilogy of adventures because he'd played them at a Con (I want to say CODCON at the College of DuPage) and thought they were challenging, but our group kept making a mockery of the challenges.

For example, halfway into the adventure, you have to fend off some bandits or whatever that have a dragon in a cage. The cage has a tough lock, and you need to get it open during the fight.

One of the guys was playing a strange Eladrin Fighter build that I don't remember the name of, that allowed him to teleport around; one of the things he could do was Misty Step and bring people with him. So he reached into the cage, touched the dragon, and Misty Stepped.

The DM just blinked at him, read how the ability worked and we went on our way. So it may just be that we were frustrating him with a nonstandard approach?

(I could also bring up the Wizard's use of Force Ladder to try and foil the tremorsense of some Bulettes in a later encounter).

This goes more into the "Orcs on Stairs" discussion, obviously, no adventure writer can predict what players will do, and this was an adventure designed to be completed within 2 hours or so, so I wouldn't expect much guidance on troubleshooting.

 

[pemerton]

Even if the DM had read the DMG2 (I don't know if he did or didn't), I think it was the Phantom Steeds that were a bridge too far. The adventure used a system of "fatigue points" that wanted to make your struggle to survive and get to your destination in a timely manner more exciting.

<snip>

obviously, no adventure writer can predict what players will do, and this was an adventure designed to be completed within 2 hours or so, so I wouldn't expect much guidance on troubleshooting.

I've had a quick skim of the adventure. It purports to support play at up to level 10. From memory, Phantom Steeds is level 6. So it seems poorly conceived from the get-go!

 

[Garthanos]

I've had a quick skim of the adventure. It purports to support play at up to level 10. From memory, Phantom Steeds is level 6. So it seems poorly conceived from the get-go!

And its not like Phantom Steeds is unpopular either (it is on my list of favorites) . At lower level it undermines difficult terrain and more generic problems like mount exhaustion and similar.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I've had a quick skim of the adventure. It purports to support play at up to level 10. From memory, Phantom Steeds is level 6. So it seems poorly conceived from the get-go!

once again an official adventure that doesn't account for a spell being an I Win Button could be any edition

 

[James Gasik]

once again an official adventure that doesn't account for a spell being an I Win Button could be any edition

I'm usually kinder to LFR mods because I'm pretty sure they were written by volunteers. I was mostly just pointing out a trend, where the out of combat utility of 4e characters was fairly marginalized in a lot of adventures written during that era, because everyone was focused on the strong parts of the rules set.

Because despite Rituals and Martial Practices existing (more or less), I'm pretty sure these options were basically ignored by the Essentials line. The going sentiment from WotC was simply "if it's not a combat, it's a skill challenge", and there were several times when I was confronted by skill challenges that didn't need to be one.

My favorite was when we were in a forest and the DM was like "ok, let's make this a skill challenge", and my response was, we're in the forest, we have a Ranger. Why would this be a skill challenge, this is like, his thing, and he has all the relevant skills. Our "helping" him would probably do more harm than good!

 

[Vaalingrade]

I've had a quick skim of the adventure. It purports to support play at up to level 10. From memory, Phantom Steeds is level 6. So it seems poorly conceived from the get-go!

IMO, the real sin is expressly adding an element to your adventure so annoying that the designers preemptively added a means to bypass it.

 

[Garthanos]

once again an official adventure that doesn't account for a spell being an I Win Button could be any edition

less frequent in 4e but it can happen. I mean if you wanted spirit mounts to have fatigue introduce environmental factors like a spirit wind *but it sounds like paragon at that point.