D&D 5E My fighter-subclass warlord

[77IM]

Well, I must have lost my damn mind, because I went and drafted a Martial Archetype version of the warlord: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5earchetypes/showentry.php?e=189

NOTES

• This thing could be grossly overpowered. It’s really hard for me to judge since most of the abilities affect only allies, not the warlord. This class certainly seems more powerful than the Purple Dragon Knight, but that class seems weak to me, compared to the kind of raw damage that battlemasters and champions can dish out.
• Inspiring Word specifically doesn’t work on people with 0 hit points because a) it doesn’t make sense to me and b) to differentiate the Inspiring Word from healing word. The warlord isn’t magic so when somebody drops, he has to run over and pour a potion into them. That’s what you get for not having to burn spell slots.
• I didn’t want to use temporary hit points because that has a very different usage dynamic: temp hp can exceed normal hp, so there’s incentive to apply temp hp very early on. Regular healing is only relevant later, after damage has been dealt. Temp hp also doesn’t stack with the Inspiring Leader feat’s temp hp, and I feel warlords should work well with Inspiring Leader.
• Commander’s Strike allows the targeted ally to decide whether to use up their reaction or accept a bonus for later, which should reduce the feeling that the warlord player gets to boss around the other players. Both options are powerful, but they should be, since the warlord is giving up an attack and fighters tend to have good attacks.
• This class has some MAD (Multiple-Ability Disorder) since its abilities key off of both Charisma and Intelligence. I think that’s OK since both seem like viable paths, and it pressures warlords to have lower physical stats than other fighters, which is somewhat appropriate. It’s also a hedge against the possibility that the archetype is overpowered.

 

[Miladoon]

Looks good and ready to playtest. Nitpicking the Inspiring Word feature, I would look for another way to say 'heals a number of hit points'.

 

[Tony Vargas]

This thing could be grossly overpowered. It’s really hard for me to judge since most of the abilities affect only allies, not the warlord. This class certainly seems more powerful than the Purple Dragon Knight, but that class seems weak to me, compared to the kind of raw damage that battlemasters and champions can dish out.

The PDK's damage output should only be a shade behind that of other fighters. It would be easy to create a fighter archetype that was 'more powerful' than other fighter archetypes, or have too much on top of the fighter's high DPR, but it'd be hard to create a set of martial abilities that threatened to be overpowered relative to casters, and, as a support-oriented concept, the Warlord is inevitably stacked up against several casters.

Besides, balance is a fluid thing in 5e, very much subject to DM moderation.

Inspiring Word specifically doesn’t work on people with 0 hit points because a) it doesn’t make sense to me and b) to differentiate the Inspiring Word from healing word.

c) makes it strictly inferior and non-viable as a sole source of support - but a fighter sub-class could never be viable as a party's sole contributor of support functions, anyway, even if decidedly 'overpowered,' there's just too little design space left to the archetypes, and it's delayed until 3rd level, when support is critical at getting through 1st and 2nd.

I didn’t want to use temporary hit points because that has a very different usage dynamic: temp hp can exceed normal hp, so there’s incentive to apply temp hp very early on. Regular healing is only relevant later, after damage has been dealt. Temp hp also doesn’t stack with the Inspiring Leader feat’s temp hp, and I feel warlords should work well with Inspiring Leader.

Sounds reasonable. With a base class in the PH, you wouldn't want to base your design on feats being used, but it's an OK assumption for a homebrew class, certainly.

Commander’s Strike allows the targeted ally to decide whether to use up their reaction or accept a bonus for later, which should reduce the feeling that the warlord player gets to boss around the other players.

Nice idea. Adds flexibility, highlights the importance of the ally to the warlord concept.

This class has some MAD (Multiple-Ability Disorder) since its abilities key off of both Charisma and Intelligence. I think that’s OK since both seem like viable paths, and it pressures warlords to have lower physical stats than other fighters.

MAD isn't quite as painful in 5e, where there's a lower cap on your primary, so you can afford to get around to boosting tertiary stats, anyway. And it fits the concept for either or both INT & CHA to matter.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Inspiring Word
As a bonus action, you can shout words of encouragement to an ally within 30 feet who can hear you and who has at least 1 hit point. The ally heals a number of hit points equal to your fighter level + your Charisma modifier (minimum 1 point). Once an ally benefits from this ability, they can’t benefit from it again until they finish a short or long rest.

So basically everyone in the party can benefit once per short rest. Some during combat and some right before a short rest. Reminds me of the Bard Song of Rest.

Amount of healing depends on how damage is distributed. This is weaker for allies that get focus fired, much better if everyone splits absorbing hits. Has a nice squad feel.

Archetype Feature
Tactical Aid
When you use the Help action to assist an ally in attacking a target, you can select a target that is up to 30 feet away from you (instead of being limited to targets within 5 feet of you).

Less useful than the Rogue - Mastermind. Hard to give up an entire action for granting a single Advantage. Most of the time this is only optimal when you have nothing else to do. Probably when in a choke-point. However, normally 7th is a ribbon or exploration feature so it is fine for the small number of situation where your too lazy to just walk over there and help.

Archetype Feature
Commander’s Strike
Starting at 7th level, when you take the Attack action on your turn, you may give up one of your attacks to call out a command to a willing ally within 30 feet who can hear you. The ally may use their reaction to make a single attack. If they choose not to do so, then their next attack gains a bonus to attack and damage equal to your Intelligence bonus (minimum +1), provided it is made before the end of their next turn.

Pretty much the defining feature of the "lazylord". Better than the Battle Master's Commanders Strike - doesn't use bonus action, and is not limited by number of superiority dice. Preferred target is a Rogue (+4d6 sneak), probably followed by a Smite Paladin or Colossus Slayer Hunter with Hunter's Mark (+1d8+1d6) much like Commander's Strike. However, if the target doesn't already have damage adds - then the Battle Master might be better. Depends on fights per short rest/day and group synergy.

The alternate hit and damage bonus seems mainly useful when fighting a high AC foe who already has Advantage.

Archetype Feature
Acumen
Also at 7th level, add your proficiency bonus to initiative checks. Instead of making a Dexterity check for initiative, you may make an Intelligence check, if that would be better for you.

7th is overloaded. Ability is not really team focused. I'd move and/or change this to be more team friendly.

 

[77IM]

Great feedback everybody!

Tony Vargas, your feedback helped me clarify something in my own mind: my goal is to make a subclass that "feels" like a warlord, mechanically and story-wise, but which does NOT replace the cleric or bard as the party healer. Because you just can't cram that much support/healing/buff into a fighter subclass without making it blatantly and obviously overpowered. I'd rather have a warlord fighter with subtle support abilities that complement the main task of fighting.

jodyjohnson -- I think you are right about Tactical Aid and Acumen being underwhelming. Once the warlord gets Commander's Strike at 7th, Tactical Aid is almost completely obsolete, since Commander's Strike only takes one attack and not your whole action and in many situations is just better. (I want Commander's Strike to come on-line after 5th level when the fighter has multiple attacks; it's much easier to give one up when you still have some remaining.)

I think I'm going to delete Tactical Aid and move a variant of Acumen to 3rd level. This solves another problem I've been having, which is that I want it to be obvious from the start that both Int and Cha are useful to the class, and yet the current version of warlord only uses Cha at 3rd level.

 

[77IM]

OK, I updated some stuff.

Miladoon -- I looked up the phrasing used by Second Wind, and used that. ;}

I wasn't really happy with the 10th level ability (Wolf Pack Tactics). I included it mostly because it had a cool name, and the 4E warlord had a crapload of abilities that move people around the battlefield. But I felt that this subclass needed something for the Social pillar; something overtly leaderly. So I thunk up Commanding Presence, basically as a limited-scope Expertise (similar to the dwarven History Expertise that only applies to stonework).

 

[mellored]

[*]This thing could be grossly overpowered. It’s really hard for me to judge since most of the abilities affect only allies, not the warlord. This class certainly seems more powerful than the Purple Dragon Knight, but that class seems weak to me, compared to the kind of raw damage that battlemasters and champions can dish out.

Allow for more trading rather then straight power.

Like giving up actions (bonus, reactions), attacks, second wind, indomitable, movement, or action surge for to boost an ally.

That gives you more room.

[*]Inspiring Word specifically doesn’t work on people with 0 hit points because a) it doesn’t make sense to me and b) to differentiate the Inspiring Word from healing word. The warlord isn’t magic so when somebody drops, he has to run over and pour a potion into them. That’s what you get for not having to burn spell slots.

I would use the PDKs "see or hear".

[*]Commander’s Strike allows the targeted ally to decide whether to use up their reaction or accept a bonus for later, which should reduce the feeling that the warlord player gets to boss around the other players. Both options are powerful, but they should be, since the warlord is giving up an attack and fighters tend to have good attacks.

That's a good idea. A nice balance of agency between players.

[*]This class has some MAD (Multiple-Ability Disorder) since its abilities key off of both Charisma and Intelligence. I think that’s OK since both seem like viable paths, and it pressures warlords to have lower physical stats than other fighters, which is somewhat appropriate. It’s also a hedge against the possibility that the archetype is overpowered.

MAD allows you to add more warlord power. Since you can't swap your Int and Str back and forth, it's basically like making 2 separate sub-classes.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I wasn't really happy with the 10th level ability (Wolf Pack Tactics). I included it mostly because it had a cool name, and the 4E warlord had a crapload of abilities that move people around the battlefield.

It was also an at-will, so 10th level seems pretty late to acquire it.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I like this a lot, some good and interesting features in here. Personally I prefer commander's strike as a reaction only thing - your allies are your weapons!

I think this could be modified further to make it more support oriented, by swapping out the 3rd and 4th attack features of the Fighter, for other cool abilities.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

The hangup I keep having over true lazylord-ism: If your whole shtick is to sit back and have your allies attack for you, why is the rogue unable to muster the self-awareness to attack twice as often when you're not around? What are you doing to enable these actions? Are you in the mix, distracting the enemy in order to open up additional opportunities for your allies? Or are you just yelling, "Swing now!" from 30 feet back? I can grok the former. The latter not so much.