D&D 5E My fighter-subclass warlord

The hangup I keep having over true lazylord-ism: If your whole shtick is to sit back and have your allies attack for you, why is the rogue unable to muster the self-awareness to attack twice as often when you're not around? What are you doing to enable these actions? Are you in the mix, distracting the enemy in order to open up additional opportunities for your allies? Or are you just yelling, "Swing now!" from 30 feet back? I can grok the former. The latter not so much.
"Lazy" is in reference to the player never picking up a die. Not the character sitting back and watching. My lazy pixie was very much in the middle of battle, launching insults and pulling people's hair abd being a nasty little distraction. Of course, 4e had much more opening reflavoring, so it could be any reason you want.

The rogue is more "aware" because he has a second pair of eyes watching from a different angle and a second mind looking for openings. Coordinating not just his movement, but also the movements of whoever is adjacent to the enemy. Analyzing the enemy for how they move, and their weaknesses. And yes, sometime throwing in your own distractions.

So you do say "swing now" from 30' away, but you say it to the fighter, which causes the enemy to turn around to block the attack and in doing so shows his back to the rogue, who get's the opportunity to plunge his blade in.


In many ways, i would like a tactician that is int/wis. Leave the cha and inspiration to the bard.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

"Lazy" is in reference to the player never picking up a die. Not the character sitting back and watching.
Nope. "Lazy", as used specifically in "lazylord", was absolutely in reference to the character not participating directly. But rather through proxy of his allies while he sat back and watched.

So you do say "swing now" from 30' away, but you say it to the fighter, which causes the enemy to turn around to block the attack and in doing so shows his back to the rogue, who get's the opportunity to plunge his blade in.
Why is it that only your lazylord has this completely-non-magical-and-mundane-yet-somehow-mystically-reliable ability to get the enemy to turn towards the fighter just so, such that the rogue can get an extra attack in? Why can't the cleric yell, "Swing now!" from 30' away? Or, heck, why can't the fighter himself distract the enemy for the rogue to take a free swing?
 

"Lazy" is in reference to the player never picking up a die. Not the character sitting back and watching. My lazy pixie was very much in the middle of battle, launching insults and pulling people's hair abd being a nasty little distraction. Of course, 4e had much more opening reflavoring, so it could be any reason you want.

The rogue is more "aware" because he has a second pair of eyes watching from a different angle and a second mind looking for openings. Coordinating not just his movement, but also the movements of whoever is adjacent to the enemy. Analyzing the enemy for how they move, and their weaknesses. And yes, sometime throwing in your own distractions.

So you do say "swing now" from 30' away, but you say it to the fighter, which causes the enemy to turn around to block the attack and in doing so shows his back to the rogue, who get's the opportunity to plunge his blade in.

Well said, Mellored. I'd like to expound on this though - and on other questions that have been raised in this thread - for the reading audience.;)

The label Lazylord simply highlights that the character isn't "physically" active in combat most of the time. They are however, always "mentally" active - always observing, thinking, analyzing, and communicating. They are most certainly not being Lazy.

But another issue was raised: What is a Warlord doing to enable other characters to do more than they normally would? To be better than they normally would? How does a Warlord make someone that is already doing everything they can, be better?

To answer that, we first need to make a clarification: D&D characters are not always performing optimally - and I'm not talking about how they are played.

If D&D characters were somehow performing at peak efficiency at every moment - something that should be noted is impossible even in real-life - then they wouldn't need to roll a D20. They'd only have a static number modeling their peak level of performance, and we would simply compare that with a target number. There would be little or no randomness - no dice rolling.

The dice have multiple purposes: 1) because it's a game; 2) to generate a sense of uncertainty and tension; and 3) to model the variability from moment to moment of people's actions - variable focus, variable effort, variable success.

We see this in real-life all the time. Just watch any sports event to see it in action. These are professional athletes, trained to the peak of performance. Shouldn't they be performing optimally at every moment?

If this were true, there'd be no need to even play the game. Simply quantify the abilities of each participant, factor in any external conditions that may be present, and then compare them in a simulation. That's it. You have your winner.

But it doesn't work that way.

How often have we seen a sporting event where inspiration or momentum makes the difference between victory and defeat?

How many football games where the defense feeds off of the success of the offense, and vice-versa, even though there are technically two separate games being played that have no physical bearing on the other?

How often have we seen a baseball team rally after a big hit - or a dramatic defensive play? How many times have we seen a team rally around a pitcher throwing an amazing game? Watching a team rise to the occasion, going above-and-beyond to preserve a no-hitter or a shutout?

How many times have we seen a team that rallies around a player? A player we call a "locker-room" leader...not necessarily the best player, but the one that people listen to, take advice from, the heart of the team?

That's a Leader.

That's a Warlord.

So, the Warlord creates situations, provides timely advice, acts as a second set of eyes or a second brain, and provides inspiration - and we model that with a bonus (whether a simple plus or advantage) - a bonus that mitigates the randomness and variability of reality.

And that's it. Easy Peasy.:D
 

I would be totally for opening up the tactical Warlord abilities to all classes (without costing feats or stuff).

That rocks, Chris.
 

I think this could be modified further to make it more support oriented, by swapping out the 3rd and 4th attack features of the Fighter, for other cool abilities.
That goes beyond what sub-classes have done so far. But one could take a page from the PDK, and tack on something to the use of an existing class feature (as the PDK did for both Second Wind and Action Surge), a 3rd or 4th attack is an exiting class feature ...
 

Nope. "Lazy", as used specifically in "lazylord", was absolutely in reference to the character not participating directly. But rather through proxy of his allies while he sat back and watched.
Watching does not mean you don't participate.

Characters don't simply pull out a magical tablet and watch cat videos while people fight for their lives. Or stand around taking in the sights. They study the enemy, coordinate assaults


Why is it that only your lazylord has this completely-non-magical-and-mundane-yet-somehow-mystically-reliable ability to get the enemy to turn towards the fighter just so, such that the rogue can get an extra attack in? Why can't the cleric yell, "Swing now!" from 30' away? Or, heck, why can't the fighter himself distract the enemy for the rogue to take a free swing?
Why do you need to be a cleric get the ability to have his prayers answered. Why can't anyone pray?
Why do you need to be a wizard to cast spells? Why can't anyone read a spell book?
Why do you need to be a bard to say magical words? Why can't anyone talk?

Simply shouting "swing now" doesn't work any more then "Moradin heal me" does. There's far more nuance to it that takes a lot of training to achieve.

And the rogue can learn to do it himself by taking the sentinel feat.
 

I would be totally for opening up the tactical Warlord abilities to all classes (without costing feats or stuff).

That rocks, Chris.
Would you be open to having cleric spells be available to all classes without costing feats or stuff?

Simply worship a god, and you can cast their domain spells?
 

Watching does not mean you don't participate.
Participate? We clearly have different definitions of "participate".

Characters don't simply pull out a magical tablet and watch cat videos while people fight for their lives. Or stand around taking in the sights.
And yet a lazylord can (and has for years).

Why do you need to be a cleric get the ability to have his prayers answered. Why can't anyone pray?
Why do you need to be a wizard to cast spells? Why can't anyone read a spell book?
Why do you need to be a bard to say magical words? Why can't anyone talk?

Simply shouting "swing now" doesn't work any more then "Moradin heal me" does. There's far more nuance to it that takes a lot of training to achieve.
But what are you doing? Besides yelling, "Swing now!," with nothing but a thin explanation of having some kind of training supposedly making you awesome? What training? Practically speaking. And why hasn't the fighter with the soldier background had exposure to this kind of training?

Those examples above are all of people doing things. Actively. Not just pulling up a chair and casting non-magical haste every round.

And the rogue can learn to do it himself by taking the sentinel feat.
Yep. And any character can take the Martial Adept and/or Inspiring Leader feats...
 

But what are you doing?
This has been explained many times. Perhaps you need a different word...

Watching, analyzing, thinking, contemplate, calculating, understanding, planning, strategizing, studying, scheming, choreographing, plotting, preparing, coordinating.

do any of those words work for you?

why hasn't the fighter with the soldier background had exposure to this kind of training?
Why can't the fighter with acolyte background heal people with prayer?

Those examples above are all of people doing things. Actively. Not just pulling up a chair and casting non-magical haste every round.
Thinking is active. It's why people get paid to do it.
 

This has been explained many times. Perhaps you need a different word...

Watching, analyzing, thinking, contemplate, calculating, understanding, planning, strategizing, studying, scheming, choreographing, plotting, preparing, coordinating.
And only this artificial construct of a warlord is capable of such things, I suppose. And you wonder why people are against such a core concept for a character class...

do any of those words work for you?
Nope. See above.

Why can't the fighter with acolyte background heal people with prayer?
Cuz magic. Besides that, there is nothing to say that a devout, acolyte fighter couldn't beseech his god in a time of dire need and the god answering his prayer. Welcome to D&D.

Thinking is active. It's why people get paid to do it.
If only the game afforded an opportunity for any PC the capability of thought...
 

Remove ads

Top