(OOC) Emerald City Knights

[hero4hire]

Weaken is a Fortitude effect by default. But yeah the whole affecting Construct thing could be officially cleared up/improved upon/errata'd or whatever. Until then I'll use the quickfix.

 

[hero4hire]

By RAW, someone could take Weaken Toughness, Ranged - Perception, Affects Objects, and Kid Bionic would not even get ANY defense! He would lose (Ranks / 2) Toughness every round and evenually be knocked out (probably in 2 rounds).

Hence the houserule. because I think we can all agree that would not be any fun for anyone.

Now even with the houserule that should to be a Kid Bionic-busting attack. But he would still get saves against it.

 

[Insight]

Hence the houserule. because I think we can all agree that would not be any fun for anyone.

Now even with the houserule that should to be a Kid Bionic-busting attack. But he would still get saves against it.

Yes, he would get a Dodge or Toughness against it.

So, you could buy Weaken Toughness 10 (Ranged - Perception, Affects Objects only) for 30pp.

Here's the problem. Kid Bionic spent 30pp on Immunity to Fortitude effects. Not to mention the 8pp spent on Toughness or 10pp spent on Agi and 7pp spent on Dodge. So it's either 38pp or 47pp against an attack that costs 30pp.

If the defense against this is Toughness, and the attack is successful, the next round Kid Bionic now has 3 Toughness and has next to no chance to defend against it. The next round, he is toast. Using Dodge is a little better, but this is mostly because Kid Bionic has a Dodge - Toughness tradeoff.

The only way to make this close to being fair is to prohibit Weaken from being a Range - Perception effect. In that case, Kid Bionic would at least get a Dodge against it each time.

 

[hero4hire]

Yes, he would get a Dodge or Toughness against it.

So, you could buy Weaken Toughness 10 (Ranged - Perception, Affects Objects only) for 30pp.

Here's the problem. Kid Bionic spent 30pp on Immunity to Fortitude effects. Not to mention the 8pp spent on Toughness or 10pp spent on Agi and 7pp spent on Dodge. So it's either 38pp or 47pp against an attack that costs 30pp.

If the defense against this is Toughness, and the attack is successful, the next round Kid Bionic now has 3 Toughness and has next to no chance to defend against it. The next round, he is toast. Using Dodge is a little better, but this is mostly because Kid Bionic has a Dodge - Toughness tradeoff.

The only way to make this close to being fair is to prohibit Weaken from being a Range - Perception effect. In that case, Kid Bionic would at least get a Dodge against it each time.

This affect would be exactly the same as Alternate Save Toughness. Yes it would mess you up. That would mess most people up, construct or not, unless they were very tough. That is what makes disintegration feared and nasty. I wouldn't expect anyone but a BBEG to have anything like that. I know that none of my NPC writeups currently have a Perception Weaken Toughness and only maybe 2 actually have it period.

 

[Walking Dad]

But isn't that mostly a power design problem?

Attacks like Disintegrate should target Toughness not Fortitude, because objects have no Fortitude.

Fortitude is for diseases and such.

Bye
Thanee

I think this is a strange 3.5 SRD throwback. The disintegrate spell was vs Fortitude, too.

BTW, a non-construct with Immunity vs Fortitude effects would be immune to Disintegrate/weaken, right?

 

[hero4hire]

I think this is a strange 3.5 SRD throwback. The disintegrate spell was vs Fortitude, too.

BTW, a non-construct with Immunity vs Fortitude effects would be immune to Disintegrate/weaken, right?

Weaken yes. Often Disintegrate is linked Weaken and a Damage effect.

I am happy to just change certain things to Affect Toughness instead. Same bonus. Similar effect.

 

[Thanee]

After looking at the relevant rules, I think H4H's "quickfix" is the best solution... I would probably just make Weaken (Affects Objects) a Toughness-resisted Effect by default, with no option to change the targeted defense.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Insight]

After looking at the relevant rules, I think H4H's "quickfix" is the best solution... I would probably just make Weaken (Affects Objects) a Toughness-resisted Effect by default, with no option to change the targeted defense.

Bye
Thanee

As long as you get a chance to avoid it, that's all I'm asking. Most attack powers require a successful attack roll and the target to fail a defense check to be successful. The only exceptions are perception ranged attacks and those cost extra.

 

[Voda Vosa]

Waiting on your kind re-review of Green Dragon before making the full character post (i.e getting the picture and background from the other post.)

 

[hero4hire]

Waiting on your kind re-review of Green Dragon before making the full character post (i.e getting the picture and background from the other post.)

I am away from my computer w/ hero lab on it but I may manually review it tonight. I can tell the array makes a heck of a lot more sense math wise.

I am going away for a wedding tomorrow and probably will not be able to post much until late Sunday early Monday (est). If I can get online I will but you know how that goes...