D&D General The Crab Bucket Fallacy

[Maxperson]

That's level 1. D&D is a leveling a campaign game. A big aspect of D&D is the stuff you are good at go up in level.

Starting with a 14 Charisma is one thing. Continuing to boost it with your ASIs is another. The fighter class gets little from increasing INT, WIS, or CHA so their scores fall behind. A wizard gets little from increasing their STR so it falls behind.

The thing most people don't get is that they also get very little from increasing primary stats. The +1 or +2 is virtually unnoticeable. You aren't going to notice the 1 extra hit every 2.5-5 fights. The extra point or two of damage doesn't do much in any given fight and spreading out a ton of not doing much over 1000 fights just equals a whole lot of not doing much.

There's little reason for a fighter with a 16 strength to increase it over say intelligence or wisdom, which is why getting a feat is almost always going to be better. You'll get more out of it and what you get will be noticeable. That also means that there's little difference between the wizard with +1 and the cleric with +3.

 

[Scribe]

People get bored of the same tropes over and over eventually.

And yet, Fighter/Champion popularity?

I mean honestly, I can tell you right now people DONT get bored. There are people playing the same tropes, for decades.

 

[Umbran]

I was not such a fool to think you were saying those things for yourself. Please give me a little credit here.

I am giving you exactly the credit you deserve.

Mod Note:

Hey.

How about the two of you cut this nonsense out? Thanks.

 

[Minigiant]

And yet, Fighter/Champion popularity?

We ain't ready for that conversation.

I mean honestly, I can tell you right now people DONT get bored. There are people playing the same tropes, for decades.

So D&D should never add anything new?

 

[Scribe]

So D&D should never add anything new?

Show me where I said that.

You cannot, because I didnt.

You are the one making definitive statements that are fine to hold as an opinion, but dont really hold up. The noble dragonborn paladin? Thats a trope. The gritty fighter? Thats a trope. The sly rogue? The horny bard? The wise wizard?

People have played these things for literal decades, and they continue and will continue to do so.

Now, you personally may be bored, but that doesnt mean D&D has issue. It means YOU are bored. I get bored all the time with games. Play something else for a few years. D&D will still be here, and it will hopefully still look like D&D, unless the 'market forces' ruin it.

 

[payn]

So D&D should never add anything new?

There is something to be said for a slow evolving base. I do not hear any complaints about struggling to keep up like in 3E and 4E. Sure, lots of folks like us are complaining because the changes and additions are not coming as fast as we like, but the bad news is I think we are outliers. Thats not an objectively sound argument against adding new things or making changes, its a good business decision not to do it because its not been fruitful in the past.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So D&D should never add anything new?

I don't think that anyone has said that.

I do think that the past is prologue, however. And a look at the past has shown that while there are people that love large amounts of new crunch ... that flooding the market with new crunch has often been counterproductive to the health of the game. Arguably, a flood of new crunch is the surest sign of a new edition needing to be released.

Slow and steady might be unsatisfying to some people, but I think that they are trying to thread the needle to keep it appealing to the most people possible. Let's try and remember that they have stated in the past that they wanted 5e to be an "evergreen" edition; lots of new crunch tends to complicate that.

 

[Minigiant]

Show me where I said that.

You cannot, because I didnt.

You are the one making definitive statements that are fine to hold as an opinion, but dont really hold up. The noble dragonborn paladin? Thats a trope. The gritty fighter? Thats a trope. The sly rogue? The horny bard? The wise wizard?

People have played these things for literal decades, and they continue and will continue to do so.

Now, you personally may be bored, but that doesnt mean D&D has issue. It means YOU are bored. I get bored all the time with games. Play something else for a few years. D&D will still be here, and it will hopefully still look like D&D, unless the 'market forces' ruin it.

I dont think the old tropes should be removed.
I mean new tropes that fit the genre should be added and supported

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think that anyone has said that.

I do think that the past is prologue, however. And a look at the past has shown that while there are people that love large amounts of new crunch ... that flooding the market with new crunch has often been counterproductive to the health of the game. Arguably, a flood of new crunch is the surest sign of a new edition needing to be released.

Slow and steady might be unsatisfying to some people, but I think that they are trying to thread the needle to keep it appealing to the most people possible. Let's try and remember that they have stated in the past that they wanted 5e to be an "evergreen" edition; lots of new crunch tends to complicate that.

WotC has prioritized keeping it appealing to as many people as possible over making the best game they could for two non-consective editions now. It's what they do, and we're not going to change that.

 

[payn]

WotC has prioritized keeping it appealing to as many people as possible over making the best game they could for two non-consective editions now. It's what they do, and we're not going to change that.

The real crab bucket in action!