D&D 5E Zard's S Tier Archetypes

[Don Durito]

Ok? It’s still the same concept, 3e just had a much greater power delta. You could easily just change the tier names to S and A-E instead of 1-6.

You can break anything up into tiers, 5e would just have a very narrow delta, with the difference between tiers being very small.

The point of breaking things into tiers is the criteria. That's why the 3rd edition tiers had defitions.

What criteria is being used here? If the power delta is very small than coming up with meaningful defintions to break things into tiers is correspondingly harder.

And if all we mean is better than other options than the concept of tiers isn't doing any work. It's just ranking.

I'm not quite sure what we're talking about here. If all we mean is that overall some subclasses are better than others then that seems inevitable that it would be so.

Is that the point here, to just discuss which subclasses are the best for each class?

Why not just say that in the first place then? That doesn't require any jargon.

 

[Flamestrike]

If you are ranking classes and subclasses I'd argue that you can't assume the 6-8 encounters (or the more accurate 3-18). Especially, as so many games don't keep to that schedule

So the question becomes 'What subclasses are best when your DM lets you spam 5 minute workdays?'

Nah mate, sorry. If we're evaluating classes and subclasses we do so in the context of a roughly 6 encounter (2 short rest) adventuring day median.

 

[Don Durito]

So the question becomes 'What subclasses are best when your DM lets you spam 5 minute workdays?'

Nah mate, sorry. If we're evaluating classes and subclasses we do so in the context of a roughly 6 encounter (2 short rest) adventuring day median.

I would refer you back to substantive part of my post you didn't bother to quote.

Address it or don't as you please, but if you don't, I don't see what the point is of replying at all.

(Also I'd ask, out of basic politeness that if attempt to paraphrase the main argument of a post you make some type of effort to do accurately and not to misrepresent it.)

 

[DEFCON 1]

...though sometimes you see tier lists with an SS category as well.

Not sure I'd ever want to play a class or subclass that identified as the SS. Sounds like that probably should be an NPC option in the DMG alongside the Death cleric and Oathbreaker paladin.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I find the lack of S tier monk disturbing.

 

[Zardnaar]

I doubt some who uses rolled stats and allows paladins to avoid MAD has a clear grasp on relative strengths.

Need to invent a tier higher than S and put all paladins in it.

I assumed default array or close to it eg point buy or maybe 16/16/14 instead of 16/14/14 as best stats.

 

[TwoSix]

I stand corrected.

Never underestimate how old the average population here is.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Never underestimate how old the average population here is.

it likely has more to do with media circles as I only know what s rank is from a pokemon spin-off.

 

[TwoSix]

I'd probably be looking for these criteria to define an S tier for subclasses.

1) We should be using this to compare differences between subclasses, not classes. If a hypothetical one class is more powerful than every other class, that doesn't mean all of its subclasses should be S tier. S tier should be the subclasses that are obviously stronger within the group of the parent class' subclasses.

2) A class with a bunch of good subclasses should have them as A tier, not S tier. S tier should be subclasses that stand above all of the other subclasses; if that kind of differentiation isn't apparent, don't make any subclasses S tier.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'd probably be looking for these criteria to define an S tier for subclasses.

1) We should be using this to compare differences between subclasses, not classes. If a hypothetical one class is more powerful than every other class, that doesn't mean all of its subclasses should be S tier. S tier should be the subclasses that are obviously stronger within the group of the parent class' subclasses.

2) A class with a bunch of good subclasses should have them as A tier, not S tier. S tier should be subclasses that stand above all of the other subclasses; if that kind of differentiation isn't apparent, don't make any subclasses S tier.

I kind of rated them by archetypes and then compiled the S ones up top.

Tasha's changes things with optional rules. A few clerics become A tier for example since they all get a kinda potent cantrip.