D&D 5E Does the Artificer Suck?

[DND_Reborn]

Can you detail what you find OP about them? With the original poster saying they are underpowered and you saying they are overpowered, I'd like to compare the list.

Yeah, this.

They're a lot of things, but OP I dont get.

Sorry, I am not going to give a fully detailed explanation. But in short, extra magic items and being able to make your own magic items easily in a game designed on the premise that magic items are not needed.

And, as I already said before:

On a personal note, I find the class concept silly as well, but that is just IMO. shrug

I also find it unnecessary and too focused.

Why? It doesn't matter IMO because it is my opinion. But, considering I dislike 95% of Eberron it shouldn't be surprising. I also think there are too many casters as it is and too much overlap between classes and the roles they play.

On a personal note, I hate tattoos and find their edition to D&D disappointing.

I know lots of people like the class, Eberron, and tattoos, but these things are just not to my tastes. shrug

 

[Blue]

Its pretty standard for the fighter to expe t y have a magic weapon by level 5

It is entirely not standard for a fighter to expect to have a magic weapon by level 5. Or well, they can expect what they want but in the majority of cases will not have it. XGtE lays out magic item expectations of the game. At the start of level 5 they will just have complete levels 1-4. At that point the party should have two uncommon major magic items. Not each, but for the whole party. So if a party member will only have an item 40-50% (2 permanent uncommon items for 4-5 party members) of the time, and there are chances it is some other item (armor, wonderous, etc.) even if the fighter, it is an unreasonable assumption for the fighter to have a +1 weapon at 5th.

If you give out a lot ore items than the game expects then yes, you will be diluting the impact of the Artificer.

@Zardnaar, does your 6th level party have more than 3-4 uncommon permanent items for the whole party? If so that generosity well above and beyond what the game expects can be a facet of the Artificer feeling lackluster as their ability to create items of enhance the others in the party isn't as important.

 

[Blue]

Artificers are strong enough to contribute meaningfully to any group.
But Alchemist and Armorer are trap choices.

Not asking to try to debate it, but curious on Armorer being a trap. I was looking for some previous-edition-style marking and Armorer seemed one of the few subclasses that can do it and the one that doesn't step on otehr player toes. So I'm wondering what the downfalls compared to say a battlesmith is. Again, I'm not asking to disagree, just see what I'm missing.

 

[Flamestrike]

Sorry, I am not going to give a fully detailed explanation. But in short, extra magic items and being able to make your own magic items easily in a game designed on the premise that magic items are not needed.

The magic items they can make (as part of their class features) have limits though (in how many they can have, and of which types), and you're free as DM to limit them making more outside of their class features (in downtime) by either not allowing downtime crafting, or limiting downtime.

I get you dont like the flavor of the class, but you expressly labelled them 'OP', which is what we're questioning.

 

[Flamestrike]

Not asking to try to debate it, but curious on Armorer being a trap. I was looking for some previous-edition-style marking and Armorer seemed one of the few subclasses that can do it and the one that doesn't step on otehr player toes. So I'm wondering what the downfalls compared to say a battlesmith is. Again, I'm not asking to disagree, just see what I'm missing.

Its a class that kind of pushes you into melee, despite not being very good at it.

It has a simple weapon that deals 1d8 damage, which you have to use in order to agro enemies into attacking you. They get extra attack at 5th level, but after then, their melee capabilities are sorely lacking.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I get you dont like the flavor of the class, but you expressly labelled them 'OP', which is what we're questioning.

Which is why I wrote:

Sorry, I am not going to give a fully detailed explanation. But in short, extra magic items and being able to make your own magic items easily in a game designed on the premise that magic items are not needed.

IME, the class is OP and banned from my games for this reason and others.

So, that's that.

 

[Zardnaar]

It is entirely not standard for a fighter to expect to have a magic weapon by level 5. Or well, they can expect what they want but in the majority of cases will not have it. XGtE lays out magic item expectations of the game. At the start of level 5 they will just have complete levels 1-4. At that point the party should have two uncommon major magic items. Not each, but for the whole party. So if a party member will only have an item 40-50% (2 permanent uncommon items for 4-5 party members) of the time, and there are chances it is some other item (armor, wonderous, etc.) even if the fighter, it is an unreasonable assumption for the fighter to have a +1 weapon at 5th.

If you give out a lot ore items than the game expects then yes, you will be diluting the impact of the Artificer.

@Zardnaar, does your 6th level party have more than 3-4 uncommon permanent items for the whole party? If so that generosity well above and beyond what the game expects can be a facet of the Artificer feeling lackluster as their ability to create items of enhance the others in the party isn't as important.

Nope I've been a bit cheap in that regard. I think they have a single permanent item each maybe some gave none.

Party lvl 6

Dragonkin Paladin (Avenger)
Vuman Cleric1 (death)/ divine soul 5.
Vuman Eldritch Knight
Warforged Storm Sorcerer
Vuman Battlesmith
Hill Dwarf Light Cleric

Not very min/maxed.

 

[Flamestrike]

IME, the class is OP and banned from my games for this reason and others.

You allow downtime crafting of magic items? I presume you dont (for the same reasons) so I cant therefore see how the Artificers ability to craft uncommon magic items faster is OP.

Im not criticising you, I just dont understand your reasoning.

 

[Flamestrike]

Dragonkin Paladin (Avenger)
Vuman Cleric1 (death)/ divine soul 5.
Vuman Eldritch Knight
Warforged Storm Sorcerer
Vuman Battlesmith
Hill Dwarf Light Cleric

No Warlocks, Monks and only the one Fighter (and it's one of the few that relies on long rest resources in spell slots).

The classes are all long rest dependent.

Strongly suggests to me that you're letting them nova, or alternatively you're requiring it by throwing Deadly+ encounters at them.

 

[Blue]

Nope I've been a bit cheap in that regard. I think they have a single permanent item each maybe some gave none.

Party lvl 6

Dragonkin Paladin (Avenger)
Vuman Cleric1 (death)/ divine soul 5.
Vuman Eldritch Knight
Warforged Storm Sorcerer
Vuman Battlesmith
Hill Dwarf Light Cleric

Not very min/maxed.

SIX uncommon permanent items is well above what a 6th elvel party should have according to Xanathar's. Xanathar's says they should only have eight (7 uncommon, 1 rare) by the time they finish 10th level. You've been generous, ot cheap. But not extravagant ... unless those items also are tuned for the characters - a weapon or armor of the right type for the paladin, etc. If you've been generous in number of items and also given out the best choice items, then the Artificer's ability to give out items for the party will seem lackluster in comparison, as opposed to how powerful it actually is.

So if your six items are things like a Trident of Fish Command, Chainmail +1, an Alchemy Jug, a Bag of Holding and the like - then you're just generous but it's likely not having much of an effect on the utility of what the Artificer gives out. If you're both generous in numebr AND giving out items on their most wanted list, then it really will make the Artificer's ability to not make as much of a difference to the party.